[ 00:00:00,030 ]Let’s go!

 

[ 00:00:20,670 ] Welcome in to Behind the Brand Podcast. I’m Adam Hayes, Hayes Group Marketing, hayesgroupmarketing. com. To my right is my co-host, Bob Payden.

 

[ 00:00:29,570 ] BPG Group, bobpayden. com. That’s awesome. To our left is Daniel Critchlow with Indie Badge and Sign. Welcome to the show. Thanks, man. Yeah. Thanks for coming on. Thanks for coming.

 

[ 00:00:39,710 ] Yeah, it’s good seeing you again. Yes, sir.

 

[ 00:00:41,830 ] Yeah.

 

[ 00:00:43,160 ] So tell us about you. Tell us about Indie Badge and Sign. We got a lot to learn. Okay.

 

[ 00:00:48,580 ] That’s good. I guess that’s good and that’s bad, right? Like if you have stuff to learn about me, then I haven’t done a good enough job marketing. There we go.

 

[ 00:00:59,210 ] Um, Well, I guess we can start from the beginning. Where were you founded?

 

[ 00:01:05,080 ] Where my dad came into the picture in taking the business over? How I’m taking it over currently? And where we’re going. Okay. So founded in 1948. So we have a long history. We just celebrated 75 years last year.

 

[ 00:01:16,860 ] Is all that here in central Indiana? Yep.

 

[ 00:01:19,060 ] Okay. Yeah. So.

 

[ 00:01:21,670 ] The first building was downtown on Mass Ave and Sherman, right by the railroad tracks. And that’s where my dad originally bought it. And he moved because he didn’t like having conversations. And people said, ‘Is there a train in your office?’ He was like, ‘Well, kind of.’

 

[ 00:01:36,630 ] That’s just outside the window.

 

[ 00:01:40,050 ] So, founded in 1948, and I didn’t know this.

 

[ 00:01:44,000 ] Uh, but back then, if you bought a dog, you had to register it with the county. And any bad was the one that stamped all the dog tags for Indiana, Michigan, and I think Ohio. Oh, wow. That’s cool. That’s how it was.

 

[ 00:01:56,100 ] That’s a neat history.

 

[ 00:01:57,220 ] Yeah. Just doing metal. Yeah. And there’s. I think Massachusetts is the only state we still get orders from for actual dog tags.

 

[ 00:02:06,610 ] So it’s still a requirement there?

 

[ 00:02:08,770 ] I don’t know if it’s a requirement or if they just want to have blanks on hand where, you know, if somebody needs an extra or something. So they’re limited. Like we’re not doing mass runs. They are no longer used, but we still do some of them, so that’s where it was founded. Um, which is interesting. We on our back wall, if you come see our factory, um, on the back wall we have— we got rid of three quarters of them, but we still have a lot of really custom dies that we use in our stamping machines that are really old, really cool, still functional, that we’ll use every once in a while. So we’re founded doing that, just metal stamping. And then the guy I want to say is something along the lines of Ray Kroc, obviously not Ray Kroc, because we’re not that cool, but um, something he had a unique name, started it, and then added on different metal stamping goods. My dad bought the company with his dad and brother in 1977.

 

[ 00:03:04,890 ] 1979 or 1980, he bought both of them out. Okay, and he added broader identification, so office name plates, name badges, more stamped and engraved metal goods. And then in the mid-80s, he added signs, final graphics, stuff like that. In the mid-90s, he was doing over $900,000 in the 90s, had 15 employees, but he didn’t like managing overhead, didn’t like managing staff. That’s understandable. Sure. So he made the decision to get out of signs completely. So he got out, downsized from 15 employees down to one, got rid of his sales staff.

 

[ 00:03:50,710 ] And just went back to stamping tags, doing office nameplates, that good stuff. So he was doing that for 20 years before I came on. Okay. And people found him just through his website. And so it was him and one other guy, and he was making a good living and having fun.

 

[ 00:04:08,460 ] I was out doing my own thing and then I came on board in 2022, did some research into what he was doing in the 90s, why he wanted to get out of signage. I like signage and I like branding, like we were talking about that brand. Buying is awesome, like that. You look at it, and you don’t have to read it— you know what it’s about. Right? So helping people physically transform their brand into physical spaces where you interact with it. And so did some research about how do we actually transform the business back into a well-known sign company, but do it profitably. and do it to where I don’t hate my life right and um that’s what I’ve been working on the past three years is reforming the company into a well-known sign company but still doing the tag side I’m not pushing it when I’m networking or out prospecting but it’s still a good good business for us and you do business all over the country all over the country yeah yep it’s not just local right yeah signs all over the country tags all over the world yeah so our furthest client for tags is Australia.

 

[ 00:05:15,170 ] We shipped to somebody in Australia. So that’s cool.

 

[ 00:05:18,270 ] Yeah. Any farther than that. I’ve been there. It’s on the other side of the globe, trust me.

 

[ 00:05:23,890 ] Yeah. Yeah. So that’s where we’re going right now. That’s a short history. Yeah. Where we’ve been, where we’re going.

 

[ 00:05:29,500 ] So what are some exciting things for you right now in the development of the sign business?

 

[ 00:05:35,200 ] um Knowing really who we want to work with, we’re nailing that down. And it’s very different than what my dad was doing to grow the business. He was going just after bid work. And if you’re a new sign company.

 

[ 00:05:53,530 ] It’s bid work is easy to find. You go to any construction company.

 

[ 00:05:57,850 ] Yep. And they’ve got it listed. Yeah.

 

[ 00:05:59,670 ] And you get on their, their, uh, RFP list and they’ll send you a ton of stuff. But when you’re just going after bids in signage. Yep.

 

[ 00:06:12,880 ] The construction company is not going to be the one making the final decision— they’ll take some quotes and they’ll pass it off to the owner and now you’re just a number without a face. And so you have to be razor thin on your margins. You don’t have a chance to interact and build a relationship. You don’t have a chance to talk through, all right, this is your brand right now. This is how you’re currently displaying it. It’s clearly not working. What can we do differently?

 

[ 00:06:38,580 ] Here are five things you need. What’s the cheapest way you can do it? And so we’ve skipped that and we’re really being focused on finding people who care about relationships. And making sure that their branding is accurate, not just their branding, but how they physically display their branding. Like we had a job. Um, it was for a senior living developer and this was in North Carolina. It was a memory care focused senior living community and the original drawing was for a larger metal sign. Um, really sharp corners, things like that. And one, it was going to be over their budget if we did it that way too.

 

[ 00:07:26,140 ] That looks pretty harsh. And if you’re focusing on memory care, you probably want something that’s a little bit more well-rounded, a little bit softer as they’re coming up. So we looked at a few different material options.

 

[ 00:07:39,440 ] We didn’t really change the design, but just switching material.

 

[ 00:07:43,520 ] We were able to shave down corners, make it a lot more inviting, a lot more welcoming. So helping people walk through this path of ‘we know where we want to go.’

 

[ 00:07:55,580 ] and we know our brand, but we don’t know how that’s going to interact. That’s really fun for me— is helping people think through, ‘How are people going to interact with your brand?’ Because your sign is the first impression absolutely that people have of your business. So, if your sign isn’t right: ‘Is it fully lit and ‘Are you missing letters?’ Does it actually make sense? So, like, your logo makes sense. Cool. But also, you’re building some power into the business through marketing. Right? So, like, your logo makes sense in your entire name. On your shirt, makes sense. And helping people walk through: ‘How do we have people interact with that?’ So, we engage well? It’s a ton of fun. So that’s one thing that’s really cool.

 

[ 00:08:45,360 ] Just taking over more and more of the company as my dad’s. Starks to transition out has been great. I own my own incorporation that we’re going to be switching to um when he fully steps out sure um.

 

[ 00:09:03,120 ] So just being able to lead that has been a ton of fun.

 

[ 00:09:07,080 ] And then.

 

[ 00:09:09,240 ] Seen a lot of growth too—I mean, right now, we’re up 46 percent from all of last year. So not year to date, but we’re already 46% surpassive.

 

[ 00:09:23,240 ] Where’s the growth coming from? I mean, other than good sales. business development effort, but I mean, is it kind of just, I mean, I know there’s construction everywhere.

 

[ 00:09:32,040 ] I didn’t know if that’s what’s helping drive that or, um, really three clients that I’ve been strategic with and trying to grow, um, a senior living developer, a church architect. And then a large electrical contractor. Okay. So, yeah.

 

[ 00:09:49,280 ] That sounds like a good lead source. Large electrical contractor. Yeah, that’s awesome.

 

[ 00:09:54,620 ] So maybe you can help Cracker Barrel. I don’t know. There you go. Gosh, I saw that again this morning. Just think about branding and bad. Oh, that’s like the worst sign. I thought it looked like Golden Corral. That’s what it does. It’s like, it’s so bad. It does. Yeah, for sure. So talk about the journey. You’ve kind of been on with your father, right? He shares little or more as much as you want, but I mean, family transitions are not easy. Right? It’s family, it’s emotional, and the business is emotional enough and stressful enough to just kind of tell people what that experience has been like.

 

[ 00:10:31,109 ] I should preface it and say I’m going to be an outlier. Mainly because I’m biased, of course, but from outside, I think most people would say I have probably one of, if not the best dad ever.

 

[ 00:10:47,120 ] Amazingly generous with his time.

 

[ 00:10:49,920 ] Um, his goal in this transition—100% is to make sure that I’m well set up in the business, which that’s what a father should do, but he’s going to extremes, which is really cool. So working with him. Been awesome. I mean, he’s one of my best friends anyway. He doesn’t golf a ton anymore, but we used to golf a lot together. We do a lot of fun things together still. So working with him hasn’t been a challenge at all.

 

[ 00:11:21,719 ] The change in direction, there have been no speed bumps, just maybe slight potholes. Sure.

 

[ 00:11:31,920 ] He’s had this business in 1977, right? He’s done it one way since 1977. And for the past 20.

 

[ 00:11:40,800 ] 22 years before I came on, he was just doing. Easy to figure out orders, easy enough to figure out orders on the tag side. And when you bring in signs, um, because we’re a custom shop, we like to bring in unique designs, and a lot of times it’s all right— we’ve done eighty percent of these things before, but there’s a there’s something in here that not many people do. So we need to really rack our brains on how do we make this come alive. Okay, so that’s that’s added a little bit of road bumps just because we’re having to do a lot of problem solving in his fourth quarter. Where I think his fourth quarter, you know, most people want it to be smooth sailing. He’s been amazingly gracious, though, and really trying to help and think through processes and make sure that we’re delivering a top-tier product. So working with him has been awesome.

 

[ 00:12:35,220 ] Family businesses, there are. Two ways, in my opinion, that it can cause issues. The person you’re working with, which in my case is not the issue. The other family members, yes, and that’s where— if we’re having any bumps, that’s where it’s coming from. People wanting him to retire sooner than he wants to, and sooner than I want him to. Sure. And so that’s where, if there’ve been any uh turmoil, and it’s there hasn’t been, because it’s been awesome. But if there have been any bumps, it’s mainly from other people trying to push him to get out of the business sooner than he and I are ready to do so. Um, but it’s been good. I came on, and I when I started in January 22, I was just doing sales, just trying to learn the business. I’d been around it for a lot of my life, but I’ve never been in the weeds of it. So learning it. And then, 23, I started to take on a little bit more responsibility.

 

[ 00:13:34,400 ] About where do we want it to go.

 

[ 00:13:37,180 ] But I wasn’t really confident enough to really have a strong voice.

 

[ 00:13:42,670 ] And then last year and this year, I’ve had a much stronger voice, and he’s been very happy for me to take the reins and say, ‘It’s hard for him, it is.’ Yeah, where do we want it to go?

 

[ 00:13:53,270 ] We had a good meeting this morning where he talked about—um. This was I never thought about this way, but it’s very true as you’re facing retirement.

 

[ 00:14:08,390 ] You have much less patience for problems because those problems don’t matter as much because your runway is shorter— very short. Yes, right.

 

[ 00:14:19,150 ] It’s a tape measure.

 

[ 00:14:20,030 ] So yeah. So he loves still working the business. Yeah, but then, when problems come up, it’s like, well, I mean, like I don’t really need to solve this because I have a year left. And if I don’t.

 

[ 00:14:33,510 ] Well, oh well, but also you’re my son. I do want to help. Yeah, yeah.

 

[ 00:14:38,270 ] So he’s still doing an awesome job of interfacing with me. I’m like, how do we solve some stuff?

 

[ 00:14:43,960 ] Um, so I want him to have the flexibility to get out, just so he can avoid that. Sure. Um, selfishly, I want him to work as long as he can, because I love working with him. It’s a lot of fun, and the setup right now is he’s doing the day-to-day stuff, which he likes, for the most part, and I don’t like. Yeah. So it’s a great setup, but I want him to get out, so he can like… uh, next Sunday, he’s going for two and a half weeks, three weeks to Europe with my mom for their 50th wedding anniversary.

 

[ 00:15:15,420 ] So I’m glad for him to take that time off. I want him to do that as much as possible.

 

[ 00:15:18,600 ] Yeah, nice.

 

[ 00:15:19,540 ] Yeah, it’s been a good, smooth transition.

 

[ 00:15:21,820 ] You are the outlier then.

 

[ 00:15:22,900 ] Yeah.

 

[ 00:15:24,630 ] Because I mean it’s fraught with peril, right? I mean, it just is. It’s… I’m glad to hear that it’s gone well.

 

[ 00:15:29,930 ] Yeah, so I I wish I could add a little bit more insight into… Okay, when this scenario comes up, this is what I did that I found helpful. This is what I did that I didn’t find helpful, but we haven’t had a lot of those road bumps that you would expect in a family transition.

 

[ 00:15:45,820 ] So, when you came on in 2022 to do sales, did you understand you were coming on to do sales, or did you understand you were coming on to potentially transition the business to you?

 

[ 00:15:55,510 ] I understood I was coming on to do sales, to learn the business, to take over. So it was always in my mind, because that’s how he had set it up. I want you to come on to take the business over. If you want, right— so it’s been this runway of, we’re at the wall now, that he next year. We’re going to start testing him stepping away.

 

[ 00:16:22,120 ] We’re at the wall of, if I don’t want it anymore, and he’s ready to retire, we both need an exit strategy, right? So we had that conversation this morning where I’m invested. And he’s invested, ready to start moving out.

 

[ 00:16:39,590 ] Yeah, that was the plan when I came on— is help him retire, so he doesn’t just sell it and it’s gone, or just walk away.

 

[ 00:16:49,880 ] I love the fact that you put in guardrails of, let’s make sure that we do this in sequential order and actually have decision points. That’s also rare.

 

[ 00:17:01,670 ] There’s a lot, and we’ve got one I’m working with right now. You know, the sun may buy it, the sun may not. And that factor of whether to do that or not depends on a couple of different things: risk tolerance for them, right? Honestly, you know what the seller’s father wishes financially, what the son’s willing to do—financially, and then just whether or not he wants to own a business. And so we’ve been working through that for about six months now, and we’re getting kind of to the end of the runway. It’s either go or no go. But just to go through that process, though, is really important because some don’t. I mean, there’s been stories of owners selling their business, but kids don’t even know it. And they show up the next day, and the doors are locked or changed or whatever, because they just didn’t want their kids to kind of have to go through it all, et cetera. But they didn’t even know. So it’s good to hear.

 

[ 00:17:53,880 ] Yeah, it’s an interesting process taking over from an older parent—sure, because they’ve been in the business long enough that they know the hard times. Yeah, right. It’s not a middle-aged parent; either they want to change careers and they’re like, ‘Hey, do you want to take this over?’ or they’re just ready to retire and they haven’t gone through every season of the business. Because when you do, thinking through, do I want my kid to have the same struggles I did, right?

 

[ 00:18:27,120 ] That’s an interesting conversation. Oh, yeah, for sure.

 

[ 00:18:30,340 ] That’s good. So you’ve had a lot of growth this year, which is always exciting, but now, as you sit here, towards the end of August, where would you say your revenue mix is? It’s 40% on badging nameplate and 60% on signs? Or what’s that look like right now?

 

[ 00:18:43,980 ] It’s flipped pretty heavily. We’re probably 65% to 70% signs in terms of our revenue. My first year, it was 85% tags, badges. And I’ve done a lot of work. Transitioning our pipeline to signs, so it’s been. It’s been a challenging first two years. There was not much traction. And then, you know, figuring out what is our actual value proposition? Because it’s not to the construction guy. That’s not who our value proposition is.

 

[ 00:19:23,030 ] Because they’re trying to. Just install it, get it done and move on. Right. Exactly. Change it later. Yeah.

 

[ 00:19:29,250 ] And so with that, right. If, if that’s your. value proposition.

 

[ 00:19:36,030 ] and That’s what you want to go after. You have to go after high volume.

 

[ 00:19:42,740 ] to meet your growth.

 

[ 00:19:47,540 ] I have a two and a half year old. I have another baby on the way. And like, I’m, that’s not where I am right now. I don’t want to chase high, high volume. That’s going to have me in the office a ton. Right. Sure. Lots more overhead as well. Yes, for sure.

 

[ 00:20:01,400 ] So, if you had your pick, you know, I’ll call it type of business situation, et cetera. How would you describe that ideal? Quiet.

 

[ 00:20:10,960 ] A niche, developer or architect, okay— and so why niche is when you have a company that just focuses on one very particular industry. So my two largest clients right now are Church Architect and Senior Living Developer. Those are the only buildings that these two touch. When you get larger, you start doing office retail, commercial, and religious institution.

 

[ 00:20:46,970 ] Most of their contracts change to where all of a sudden it becomes way more commercialized and the final design is put back on the owner instead of the contractor. So these, these two in particular that I’m working with, that are very, very niched. What I found is when you work just just one industry, you want to protect your brand and your image as much as possible because you can’t go outside of that lane. So that means you, inside the company, you’re going to handle what furniture are we putting inside? What is the final wall color going to be? And what signage are we putting in? Because we want everything to follow our brand so that when a competitor walks in, they just built this. Oh, wow, that looks really good. Let me figure out who built it because I want something similar.

 

[ 00:21:42,660 ] Hmm.

 

[ 00:21:43,770 ] Then they’re going to keep all that in house, but if you’re able to go outside of that vertical, and say, ‘Well, we didn’t do great in senior living, so we’re going to go try retail those final touches. Become we’re going to let the owner deal with it, because we want to move on to the next project real quick. Sure. And that’s okay.

 

[ 00:22:06,150 ] But then you get on this person’s preferred vendor list, and you have to resell every single job to a new owner.

 

[ 00:22:15,600 ] I love relationship building. And so I don’t necessarily want to jump from one owner to the next owner. It’s not that that’s not good business. That’s just not the type of relationship that I really want to develop. I want to develop something to where I can have that cross-communication with, okay, we’re we’re doing it this way for this memory care, like I said that that previous example. Let’s do it this way, but now this one’s completely different. Let’s switch things up because it’s a different feel and owners.

 

[ 00:22:49,230 ] They know their brand. But they’re focused on. I just want to get it done right because these develop these niche developers. They want to get it done right.

 

[ 00:23:00,860 ] To move on to the next one.

 

[ 00:23:03,120 ] the owners they want to get it done so they can continue with their operations not i really want to make sure my brand is perfect because they’ve been signage is the last one in right so if an owner has been following this process for Six years, right from the con the conception of we’re going to build.

 

[ 00:23:25,150 ] to we were we’ve gotten funding we’ve seen what it’s going to look like we broke ground here’s the building i’m tired of dealing with everything signage Just do what you can. Get it on.

 

[ 00:23:37,090 ] We got to get people in here. Exactly.

 

[ 00:23:38,510 ] Yeah. So I like developing those relationships a little bit deeper. So niche developers. Whether it’s religious institutions, multifamily, or senior living, that’s my preferred top-tier client. Okay, is somebody who just develops in one space, just because I like slower growth that I can really have a lot of input in. Sure, because it’s fun. Right, like helping people design something is a ton of fun. Sure, that’s what I like. Awesome. Good question.

 

[ 00:24:11,500 ] What kind of threats do you see to the signage industry as a whole, or do you see any?

 

[ 00:24:17,860 ] Yeah.

 

[ 00:24:21,340 ] I was having lunch with a friend the other day and we were talking about, has AI caused any disruption in our industry? He’s a financial advisor and it hasn’t yet.

 

[ 00:24:34,570 ] Um, what’s going to yeah yeah and that’s we had a really interesting conversation about picking up your phone and the more or less non-savvy investor being able to say, ‘Hey, I’m 33 years old, I make this much money, I want to have this much retirement at age 65, set up accounts for me, and it’ll just go and do it right. Um, so I think an AI is going to be a huge disruptor for a lot of white collar sectors. Yes, you AI has not caused much disruption for sign manufacturing at all, right?

 

[ 00:25:14,830 ] More of a trade-based, right? Yeah, you can add AI— AI can’t make a— Exactly. Run a machine, yeah, right, per se.

 

[ 00:25:20,880 ] AI can be added into some equipment, but it can’t do the job.

 

[ 00:25:26,680 ] It’s getting very good at artwork. So there are some designers that it’s disrupting. Um, we do some design that’s not our favorite thing to do. I work with two high-end designers that, if somebody comes to me and says, ‘We want to do a brand a rebrand but we don’t know what we want it to look like, I’ll say, ‘Talk to my designer’ and then come back and let’s build it out.

 

[ 00:25:54,130 ] I see AI disrupting that a little bit because anybody can get on it and they can do 1,000 revisions of it until they get exactly what they want. And they may have to pay a $150 annual subscription fee to it, but they get so much for it. So that is going to be a big disruptor for the design space.

 

[ 00:26:20,100 ] But in terms of disruptors, there’s not a ton right now in terms of threats that we see.

 

[ 00:26:27,540 ] It’s keeping up with technology so that we can produce at the same pace. That people are are getting from competitors— that’s the major threat. They have a lot of cool technology right now, like one we’re we’re looking at investing in a UV printer and why would we need a printer for doing dimensional things, but UV specifically. This one we do a lot of ADA signage. So ADA wayfinding. And currently, we use our own proprietary system to do the braille dots in the letters on it. But with this, we take a piece of metal, piece of plastic, put it on the bed and it runs over. And as soon as it runs over, it cures it with UV ink. So it can go and it can do 10 passes. And now you have a tactile surface made out of this ink. And so that’s very quick. So there are some technology pieces that are threats if other competitors start incorporating those into their business before we do.

 

[ 00:27:29,970 ] And all of a sudden, their pace of production quickens because if you’re the last one in. The expectation is, okay, we’ve been doing this project for two years. You’re holding us up. We want to get this done as soon as possible. So speed is important. So, if we start keeping our same production rate as we are right now, and the competition speeds up, then all of a sudden we have a huge gap, a big gap. So that’s a big one right now.

 

[ 00:28:03,040 ] There’s not a ton of automation yet. Indiana has always been really slow to develop AI and technology compared to the rest of the country. We’ve just been behind.

 

[ 00:28:14,440 ] We’re the breadbasket.

 

[ 00:28:15,240 ] Yeah, we’ve been behind in a lot of it, right? So there hasn’t been a ton of stuff in local competition that has been.

 

[ 00:28:25,200 ] Um, really damaging to we need to catch up or we need to really change our operation so it’s slowly changing all of a sudden it’s just going to be everyone’s either doing this or they’re dinosaurs and they’re just they’re done. So there are some technology threats there that we need to stay on top of.

 

[ 00:28:45,570 ] Um, what do you see as the flip side? The opportunity.

 

[ 00:28:48,650 ] So.

 

[ 00:28:50,560 ] Because Indiana is slow to adopt a lot of technology, there are a few companies based in Indiana that are doing a lot of business outside of Indiana because Indiana is not adopting it. It’s incorporating a lot more digital signage into interior spaces.

 

[ 00:29:12,730 ] Let’s take the Vegas Sphere for example, right?

 

[ 00:29:17,130 ] That is the coolest thing. It is, right? That thing’s awesome. It’s immersive.

 

[ 00:29:20,550 ] Yeah. That’s just one big sign. Yeah now, right and so taking that technology and either incorporating it into just static signage, where now you have an interactive piece to it, or being able to just replace most of your signage. For example, if they are changing wards, right now they have to have somebody come in and take down the letters, repaint, fix the drywall, redesign, and then reapply the signage. If all of that was more digital, and don’t think digital— a lot of office spaces right now have the old-school digital, where it’s right, it’s this thick with a really big frame around it. I mean, you could have this entire wall be a digital wall and not know it’s there. and so incorporating that into hospitals, into hospitality, into things that change a lot, and all of a sudden now I have some one person who sits behind a desk and types in what they want it to look like, it’s enter, and now the entire board has changed.

 

[ 00:30:37,320 ] So there are some really cool opportunities to incorporate that. It’s just helping people see this is where it’s going. Sure. I mean.

 

[ 00:30:49,290 ] I do think there’s always going to be a place for dimensional signage because it looks really clean. It digital looks clean as well, but it feels modern. It feels like it doesn’t feel like signage.

 

[ 00:31:07,030 ] Right. And so like billboards.

 

[ 00:31:08,770 ] Yes. Yeah.

 

[ 00:31:10,090 ] Billboards have been around a long time. Right, plywood and whatever— then they started you know they’d roll them out, squeegee them, now it’s a canvas. Now it’s digital, etc. So you kind of see that, but it’s still a billboard.

 

[ 00:31:22,270 ] Yes, yeah, yeah. Of course. So I think there’s always going to be a desire for static, dimensional signage that’s not going to go away anytime soon. But a lot more places are going to be incorporating more digital signage.

 

[ 00:31:38,480 ] That’s interactive. And that’s going to be cool. That’s going to be really cool. One of the other opportunities for us.

 

[ 00:31:45,590 ] Because we’re getting back into the well-known signage space, we haven’t been pigeonholed into, okay, you guys only do this type of signage. So not that we’re a fresh company, obviously. We’ve been around since 1948. But we’re still able to market ourselves as we do religious institutions.

 

[ 00:32:13,520 ] Office space we do large exterior illuminated, we do all these different things. So it is nice that we’re not just pigeonholed into one area of signage. There are a ton of companies that They only do one, but there are a few large sign companies around that, when you think of them, you think of one type of sign. Right. And so that’s what we’re trying to avoid. Okay.

 

[ 00:32:42,390 ] One of our other opportunities that I’ve been really trying to work on is becoming less industry agnostic. When we started, we said ‘yes’ to everything that walked in the door. Of course, right. And it sounds like a good business philosophy. I’ll take as much business as I can get. But if you’re doing 50 SKUs, and you’re not tracking which one is your best, which one’s your most profitable, which one’s your quickest. And you’re just saying ‘yes’ to everything. All of a sudden, your entire business is hurting. So we’re doing a lot better job of trying to become less agnostic. Nice. Yeah. So it’s been good. That’s great. That’s awesome. It’s been fun.

 

[ 00:33:28,170 ] What do you like to do for fun?

 

[ 00:33:30,260 ] It depends on the season.

 

[ 00:33:34,570 ] Um and I have five probably main hobbies.

 

[ 00:33:43,630 ] And. I usually say this is my year of X. I like to do all of them throughout the year, but usually one year is dominated by. one of my hobbies. And then the next year, for some reason, I don’t have as much interest in it. So last year was my big fishing year. I love fishing.

 

[ 00:34:04,990 ] Fishing specifically, I have a friend here in town I thought I liked bass fishing and then I went fishing with him and I was like, ‘I don’t like bass fishing I guess I just do it my idea of bass fishing is going out somewhere pretty easy to get to.

 

[ 00:34:24,199 ] But there aren’t many people. Fishing for two hours, right— that’s great. I catch a few fish, have some fun. His idea of fishing is walk two miles through thick woods to get to this one lake that nobody knows about, and you’re there for eight hours.

 

[ 00:34:41,020 ] Eight hours.

 

[ 00:34:41,600 ] I’m like, ‘No. No thanks.’ So I like fishing, but I guess I don’t like fishing. So last year was my big fishing year where, you know, three times a week I was out fishing. Wow.

 

[ 00:34:55,739 ] This year started as my golf year. I thought this was going to be my big golf year. I was a golf pro for six years.

 

[ 00:35:03,840 ] When I got out, I you know in the golf industry I was playing five days a week with members giving golf lessons and then I got out I was just burned out and so it took me a while to get back into the game. Then, three years ago, two years ago, I got really into it. Shot my lowest round ever. Um, took kind of a year off last year and then this year got really excited about it again. Then, halfway through the year, I was like, I played like three times. Like, I guess this really isn’t my golf year. So fishing, golfing. Um, I like working with my hands. I used to own a furniture company called Dan Good Furniture. I want to make sure I pronunciate well. Dan, as in my name. Good Furniture. Built entertainment sets, dining room tables, things like that. So I like woodworking. I don’t do nearly as much as I used to do.

 

[ 00:35:59,259 ] In the fall, in winter, I like hunting.

 

[ 00:36:04,520 ] And then, now that I have a two and a half year old, I love going to splash pads. There you go.

 

[ 00:36:10,040 ] And they love it too. That changes the whole priority. I know, right? Oh my goodness. Tell us about your family.

 

[ 00:36:16,130 ] So I’ve been married since 2017. My wife, Jenna, is from Holland, Michigan. Oh yeah, um, so that’s a great place to go visit, yeah.

 

[ 00:36:25,190 ] Right there, right through it.

 

[ 00:36:26,190 ] Last week, yeah, Tulip Town or excuse me, Tulip Time. Um, in May, and so we go up there before we had Abraham, our two and a half year old, we were up there or they were down here, pretty frequently. But with him, we don’t travel as much, just obviously traveling with him. The two and a half realism, a ton of fun relocation. Uh, yeah, that’s right. Um, so she’s from Holland, Michigan. She went to Indiana Wesleyan University, which is how she started to like Indianapolis. She moved down here in 2015. We met early in 2016, started dating pretty quickly, and they got married in May of 17. Um, started trying for kids in May of 20, I think. It took us just over two years to get pregnant with Abraham. Um, had him.

 

[ 00:37:23,590 ] We always wanted three kids.

 

[ 00:37:26,650 ] We had Abe. And the first month we’re like, okay, we’re done at one. Yeah.

 

[ 00:37:33,690 ] You know that you’re not the first parents that I know. Right, that all sounds good.

 

[ 00:37:37,670 ] Oh man, yeah, that, that first month of a newborn, especially your first. Yeah, it’s just like, ‘Why did we do this?’ Yeah, and then you’re like, ‘Okay, this, this is awesome.’ Um, so And then we started trying for another one.

 

[ 00:37:54,140 ] It took us just over a year to get pregnant with the second one. And he’s due October 6th. Nice. So a month and a half, basically. Almost there. I know. We’re stoked. So three?

 

[ 00:38:08,210 ] We always wanted three. And so my wife needs to decide if she’s okay potentially having three boys. Yeah. Because she really wanted a girl. Of course. Which I did too. But we’re really happy that Abraham’s going to have a brother. So.

 

[ 00:38:27,740 ] One of my family members has two kids and they stopped after two because that pregnancy was a little bit harder. And now their youngest is almost four. And they wish they had waited longer to make that decision.

 

[ 00:38:42,320 ] So we’re being cautious. No matter how this pregnancy goes, no matter how the first few months go, months of this new baby’s life go— we’re not going to make rash decisions and excuse me, decisions about are we done or do we want more. So I think I want more. Like, if you’re going to have kids and you like one, and you can tolerate two, like one, what I’ve heard is going from two to three— it’s not much of a difference.

 

[ 00:39:11,240 ] Then you got an odd number. So right, right.

 

[ 00:39:13,260 ] Yeah, I’m one of three. She’s one of three. Um. So.

 

[ 00:39:19,150 ] Keep the tradition going. That’s right. That’s right. So we’ll see. I think it’d be fun. I think it’d be fun. You guys got any trips or anything fun planned this year? We’ve done several trips already. Now with the baby so close, we’re staying home.

 

[ 00:39:34,000 ] I traveled a decent amount for work. I got to take her with me once for a baby moon, which was nice. But we.

 

[ 00:39:43,370 ] We were in Gulf Shores in June celebrating my parents’ 50th wedding anniversary.

 

[ 00:39:49,950 ] Um, we went to DC for a week for work, and I got to do a little site. I love DC— it’s one of my favorite cities. I was a history major in college, and history and business. So being able to explore a little bit there was a ton of fun as well. Every other year, my mom’s side gets together somewhere cool. And I think when everybody’s together now, we’re at like 54 people.

 

[ 00:40:15,750 ] And a cousin.

 

[ 00:40:18,290 ] Co-owns a big farm in West Virginia. So we went out and everybody stayed on the farm and they have a really cool pool house and it’s on this river.

 

[ 00:40:28,170 ] To do some fishing at the base of this small mountain in West Virginia and caught some cool fish there. So we did that and then our baby moon was in Orlando finishing up a sign.

 

[ 00:40:39,580 ] January.

 

[ 00:40:43,090 ] We were in Florida. Her parents recently bought a condo in Florida. So we were down there for a week and a half. I was working. She was. relaxing at the pool with Abraham, uh, it was great yeah. So now, until you know, probably March, we’re going to be recluses. Yes. Just stay inside. That’s okay.

 

[ 00:41:07,710 ] Enjoy the time. That’s right. It goes quick. Oh, I know. Trust me.

 

[ 00:41:11,110 ] Thanks for coming on.

 

[ 00:41:12,130 ] It was awesome having you. Tell us where people can find you.

 

[ 00:41:15,610 ] There are several places. Check out my LinkedIn. If you want to see what I do, I post a lot to LinkedIn. So just search Daniel Critchlow. Our website, www. indiebadge. com. You can check us out there.

 

[ 00:41:29,600 ] Um, but if you want to get in touch with me directly, I’ll send you my tree. My link tree has my preferred print partner, because I’m so close to print, I get asked for it a lot. My business card, my LinkedIn, my email, my socials, things like that.

 

[ 00:41:50,510 ] Awesome. I appreciate it. Yeah, this is great. You bet.

 

[ 00:41:52,970 ] Thanks for having me on. Yeah, it was great.

 

[ 00:41:54,870 ] Have a good weekend. You too. All right. Thanks, guys.