[ 00:00:00,000 ]Let’s go!

 

[ 00:00:19,130 ]Welcome into Behind the Brand Podcast. I’m your host, Adam Hayes. To my right is my co-host, Bob Payton. And to my left today, our guest, Jason Sullivan with Shade Chaser. Welcome. Thank you guys. Thank you very much for having me. I appreciate it. Yeah. So tell us about Shade Chaser. Shade Chaser. The name is kind of interesting and most people really say, ‘What is it?’ What is it? I used to take my uh… I would take checks into the bank and people would always ask, ‘Hey, what is that?’ And I would always say, ‘Oh, thank you so much for asking. Shade Chaser was the name of my father’s sailboat that he bought. Hence the website. Yes. So he bought a sailboat one day. He always wanted one.

 

[ 00:00:56,360 ]He came from very, very poor upbringings in Detroit, Michigan, and, as he was older, he got this old sailboat and it was up on sawhorses and it maybe was 26 feet and it was shaded chased from the back. And I, when I got there and he was showing me what he was doing, I thought, what a cool name for pretty much anything, but definitely for a sailboat when you really think about it. And I ended up losing him early to cancer. And as I was ascending in my sales job at the time, I, um, he never got to see me cash my first check or succeed. I was in law enforcement. And I had a really strange injury, playing in the semi-pro All-National Public Safety Football League.

 

[ 00:01:36,470 ]So I had to make a hard right turn, and retire, and I ended up going into this sales job. Wow. Yeah. You’ve already like gone in three branches that we’re going to come back to. But to get to the story, so my parents had divorced. My father and I were estranged for a while. We came back into each other’s lives. It was great. When he was terminal, I was able to take care of him. And he actually ended up passing away in our house. But again, I had not made it financially or been successful. He was always proud of me. I knew that, but I had always wished. My business got to the success point where I needed an S corp name.

 

[ 00:02:07,810 ]I thought everybody who says, you know, the Evans Corp or the Smith Group or John and Joanne, I thought that’s fine, but it’s a little too boring for me. Right. Not creative enough. So I sat back and I said, and it came to me. And my mom was a little bit jealous and she did all the heavy lifting for me, raising me, but she understood. So that’s where the name came from. That’s cool. And what happened is I have been in sales for the past 22 years. And when COVID hit, I was without a job for the very first time. And it’s a crazy place to be when you’re 51, 52 years old and you need another career, because I’m also an older father. I’ve got a 13-year-old and a 12-year-old boy.

 

[ 00:02:47,670 ]So you know how that is when you’re nervous? I started thinking, ‘What am I going to do?’ and I had—aside from the sales leadership roles they want— metrics data and analytics, and computer skills with Excel, things that I’m not only very very poor at, I don’t like. By inter, right? So they kind of go hand in hand. Yep. So I thought, ‘I’m gonna have a hard time getting a job.’ I may have to go back to square one as a 51-year-old man reporting to a 27-year-old lady and gentleman. Yes, yeah. And um, we can say that now. I got scared and I said, ‘You know what?’ I always wanted to write a book.

 

[ 00:03:20,630 ]So I started writing it and I wanted to write about soft skills, interpersonal skills, because they’re the one thing that I’ve always felt that I had— it was my one strength, if you will. I owe that to a variety of things, as we all do, sure. And um, I said, ‘You know what?’ Screw it. It might be the wave of the future, chat, GPT, AI, and all that, but we’re always going to need to have interpersonal soft skills. A lot of people don’t know it yet. Younger millennials and Gen Z certainly don’t know it, but we’re seeing all the consequences. So I take the Shade Chaser name. As I’m doing all of this, I’m working as a consultant for a professional training company that does sales training, and they also do exceptional presentations training.

 

[ 00:04:03,430 ]So I say, you know what, I’m going to hang my shingle, use that name, and I’m going to reach out and I’m going to do dynamic or powerful presentations. And I’m going to take a relationship building curriculum where I can go into business. Whether they’re 60 years old or they’re 21 years old. I’ll give them a booster shot if they’re older. If they’re brand new, I’m going to teach them some of the ways we used to do it or the way we were raised. Because I think that’s a skill and an art that transcends, no matter how intelligent someone is with their hard skills. And what’s interesting is, as a lot of people who start their business, you kind of take a chance and you think you’re in an area that might be unique and isn’t necessary.

 

[ 00:04:38,910 ]But somewhere in you, there’s doubt— where you go, maybe this has been done before. Maybe they don’t want it. Maybe there’s no need for it. I’m very very new and I’m at the beginning of this venture. But every single stranger friend and people that you know— whether I met him at a hotel, in the lobby and passing, or at a conference— they said, ‘What an excellent idea.’ Because it’s more for me into taking these courses and that kind of content, all based on relationship building and being authentic, and doing so. Yes. It’s morphed into maybe I should put out some type of advertisement or marketing. Marketing for parents of seniors in high school, because we know they pay several thousand dollars for SAT or ACT prep.

 

[ 00:05:18,580 ]Yes, they do, and they’re sending their 17-year-olds off without the skill of standing up and looking at the professor in the eye, shaking his or her hand, and saying, ‘Professor, can I talk to you about my paper?’ They want to do everything behind this. And I thought, wouldn’t it be interesting? Interesting, if I marketed something and we happen to live in a an affluent county here, sure, where maybe I could and it just branches into everything, and each person I talked to and more encouraged it. It’s just coming to me one day at a time, and there’s been some nice opportunities that have come up. But I don’t know if I gave you too much.

 

[ 00:05:50,960 ]However, I’m so passionate It’s fascinating to talk about this because in the current environment that we have, It seems like the pendulum has swung so far to the right, of trying to operate at scale without relationship building, which you know adds up to a race to the bottom on pricing, essentially 100. I think that the pendulum, although slowly, is starting to swing back the other way, and people are starting to understand relationships are key and paramount. And not that we have to lose all of the advanced technology that we have to help connect with each other, but we do have to balance it with human interaction and authentic communication. And I said in my book, I went even farther than that. I said, given between the two, throw out the hard skills.

 

[ 00:06:36,210 ]Because at the end of the day, humans need to, they need each other. Yes. And you can. The smartest, most brilliant, and most technically sound engineer, but if you can’t communicate and you can’t engage with someone, you’re never gonna know. Who’s gonna know? No one. Right. I remember saying this to someone once. They said, ‘Well, you know, my work will speak for itself, right?’ And I said, ‘No. The only person who speaks for you is you. Your work, you’ll only get so far.’ doesn’t mean you can’t get recognized and you may not be engineer and I I don’t need to pick on engineers you may not be engineer you may be engineer of the month but you’ll never ultimately ascend as high as you could if you said simply had the ability to sit down and talk with somebody from the heart because that authenticity and sincerity is what grabs us.

 

[ 00:07:17,900 ]And we know this because we meet people and go, I don’t know what it was about that guy, but man, I liked him. She was cool. And we don’t know necessarily. And that’s the thing you want to try to learn and teach. So what does that look like for a business owner? Let’s say I’m running a $5 million electrical contract business. And let’s say I run into you and you have a sales. Let’s say you have eight guys and gals in the field, right? And there are a variety of ages, right? And the curriculum is relationship building, because what you’re up against, as any business owner, with your competitors, is customer service— the experience, and all of that revolves around interpersonal skills.

 

[ 00:07:55,540 ]So it could be a group of engineers, it could be a group of people who answer the phone, it could be customer service, more traditional. It could be sales, because the course is really what I’m putting together as an interactive, with role play. Like here’s the situation: pick up the phone, right? We put you up in front of everybody. People evaluate. You self-evaluate. We’ll record it. People get nervous under these situations, which is great because that’s an organic pressure that we want under the situation. Situation, because it’s life, right? It can be the simplest of things where I could take a younger group of people and say, ‘Walk in the door.’ I’m the person who’s interviewing you and show me what you’re going to do all the way through eye contact to body posture.

 

[ 00:08:33,720 ]To voice projection, to how you’re going to shake a hand. Are you going to use one hand? No, I’m going to always tell you to use the double handshake. It’s a lost art, and I’ll tell you, and I get it, which is so rare. So powerful. It’s just that little extra touch. These are things that we’re losing as we evolve digitally and through successive generations. To be that older guy who said, you know, when I was a kid, the hair loss, but mentally, I never wanted to be someone who was narrowly focused and forgot what it’s like to have new things and things evolve right and I honestly and I’m waiting for someone to challenge me or educate me on this.

 

[ 00:09:10,980 ]Maybe our grandparents told our parents, ‘You’re watching, you’re listening to too much rock music.’ Maybe our parents told us it’s too much TV. What happened to us with the digital technology? Didn’t the average evolutionary challenge from one generation to the next. It went hyper-speed up and we are now left looking at each other and you’ve all heard. This we are more disconnected than we’ve ever been, and you see it— the stress, the assault, and the battery— uh charges that are on the rise throughout the United States. And I tell anyone you want to see how it is in the US, go to the airport, get an hour or two early, and then get off playing flying economy, and watch how far we’ve fallen with consideration for our fellow humans.

 

[ 00:09:49,480 ]Oh yeah, it’s a petri dish absolutely— it really is. Yeah. And and you see everybody, and you see people jump up in front of people, less than them, older ladies, older gentlemen. No one wants to help someone get their bag. No one will take a moment to sacrifice something for somebody else. There’s tunnel vision. They’re on a device and they’re moving, right? And that has that effect. We become less empathetic by nature. Yeah, sure. You reduce the lack of empathy that we have and you’ve got a powder keg now sitting in your basement with access to millions of people reading how mad you are. Sure. And you read enough people about how mad they are and you start to become. A victim. And then put those people in a position of customer interface.

 

[ 00:10:33,770 ]war. Yeah, they don’t. They almost don’t know what to do. Right. I mean, it’s— you can’t talk to anybody that’s over the age of 35. And I’ll even go that low. That doesn’t say there’s a remarkable decline in customer service. Right? And even the basic customer service of just saying ‘hi’ or ‘hello’ or smiling at the counter, right? It’s, it’s startling to me. And every time I talk about it, I get that cringe. Like I’m sounding like an old guy older than I am. Right. I’m at that age, I guess, where I look young to old people, but to young people, I’m old. It’s a weird range to be in. Yeah. And it’s troublesome for me because I want to stand up and scream and go, ‘Listen to me.’ I know you’ve heard this, but this is going to be the thing that kills us because it snowballs us into not liking each other.

 

[ 00:11:22,170 ]And we don’t even know each other. True. Yes. Right. Interesting. So what do you see happening of the people you’ve talked to in the last year? What do you see as the top? A couple of things that are really standouts, other than just how they interface with people. You mean how I, how poor I think it is. Yeah, okay. So there’s a lack of even social grace. Right. The simple things like ‘please,’ ‘thank you,’ ‘may I excuse me That’s always startling, right? It is startling. It’s startling to walk past a 23-year-old writer engaged in a transaction with no talk. Right. A number comes up on a computer to make a transaction, and they’ll stand there. You give the money, and then they’ll give you change, and not a word has been said. ‘Not thank you,’ ‘not how you doing.’ That was your day.

 

[ 00:12:09,330 ]Not even $16. 95 for the bill. They’re just letting you read the screen. It’s just tap and go. Right? And this is one of those things in life where there are people much smarter than me, but I literally think this will be the destruction of us if we don’t get our hands around it. It’s a big fight I have with my wife, too, because as my sons are coming of age, I want to take all the electronics and throw them in the trash can. And she’s like, ‘You’re older. It’s evolved. This is how they communicate.’ With each other now because they have a game where they all talk inter-game or intra-game, right? While they’re playing. But they’re not talking. That’s the new backyard football. Yes, without the personal interaction.

 

[ 00:12:49,000 ]Without knocking on the door to say, ‘Hey, is Johnny home?’ None of that. Talking to my boys, we were talking about going to a dance. I said, ‘Uh, yeah.’ This thing about guys going like ten guys going with ten girls going on a bus and they’re all friends— the prom or to the homecoming dance. I said, ‘Dad, that’s not going to be you.’ You’re going to find someone you like. You’re going to go through the motions. You’re going to ask her. Then you’re going to pick her up at her house. You’re going to say hello to her mother and father. And my little one, my 11-year-old, who was 10 when I said this, just said, ‘Dad, don’t you think it’s a little early, Dad, for this no.’ It’s not right.

 

[ 00:13:27,480 ]But it’s a fight. Because um, the digital electronics that are available and the and the the level and quality of what you’re seeing on the animation— it’s startling. It’s so lifelike. Yes, right. It gets better every day. Better. Right, so it it really does. And the more they get into it, the less one of the coolest things I heard was: ‘We’re not bored anymore. Our children aren’t bored anymore And boredom forces and creates creativity. Because we use our imagination. Remember, you’d be alive if you got in trouble. I think they’re occupied. Yeah. Right. So it takes away the boredom, right? Because they’re occupied, but then their brains aren’t dealing with the vacuum of not, you know, I’ll use an example of, uh, you know, some of the best toys when our kids were kids was cardboard boxes.

 

[ 00:14:14,870 ]It wasn’t the Legos. It wasn’t what’s in the box. It’s the box. Yes. Right. And you sit there and go, ‘But I mean, that allows you.’ Not to be bored and figure out that’s all I have to work with— my wallet, Ford out of it, whatever— versus None of that. And here’s an electronic game to do Candy Crush or whatever. I don’t know, right? I mean, it seems like driven to distraction, right? Instead of boredom, I think we’re distracted. And I think, you know, by and large, we haven’t. Educated the younger generations about the ability to take a moment for themselves and say, ‘How do I feel in this situation? Where am I in this moment?’ Because everything is so disconnected and on a screen and not interactive.

 

[ 00:15:04,510 ]It just really, it’s a concern. It, it really is. I mean, it’s—uh— if we keep marching down that path, it’s going to be hard to overcome it. Yeah, the statistics they’ve done, studies where they take three and four-year-olds and how they’re to control their anger and the level of their tantrums. And we’re pacifying and we’re soothing that generation with something, as soon as they start to get out of line or they start to cry or get whiny. We give them electronic, and they go boom. It’s like a bottle to a brand new restaurant. Yeah, you see it all the time, right? And it’s hard to fault parents because, imagine, those 200 years ago, having something when they were losing their mind at a situation, but they could hand something off and all of a sudden there’d be silence.

 

[ 00:15:44,900 ]But the boredom thing, if we want our kids to be bored and it goes back to that, if we’re— I’ll give you an example. I come home, I take my kids out, we go to dinner, we go to ice cream, maybe we play laser tag or something. And they’re having a lot of fun. They’re not thinking about electronics. The second. The 10th of a second we get in the car, they grab for an electronic. If there’s not one in the car, the second we get home, they jump on the electronic. Back in the day, if you had a special day with mom and dad, that was it. And then, when you went into your room, you played with your toys, you went outside, you did anything, but the boredom forces you to use that imagination.

 

[ 00:16:20,420 ]We soothe and pacify our children across the board, not just filling in those gaps of boredom which are necessary for how you evolve as a person, but how you cope with stress in times when you don’t have anything. It’s amazing to me. So in the context of your business, right? Where would you see the biggest opportunity, right? Younger. Young professionals, older. It would absolutely be in with Generation Z and younger Millennials. Okay, yeah. Because we see them and what’s happening is our generation right now owns the C-suite. We have the keys. We’re in charge today. Today. Today. Yeah. And and that doesn’t mean I don’t mean that literally. Us. I just mean our generation. Generation and the younger Millennials and the Gen Z are our future superstars.

 

[ 00:17:10,770 ]They’ve got to come through us metaphorically to get to the other side. And we aren’t community in the workplace. One of the hardest things for me, marketing my business, is trying to get that niche. Because you know, as a marketing professional, find a niche. I know, thanks for teeing that up, right? It’s hard for me because the very nature of soft skills and interpersonal skills, they’re critical, whether you’re 80 or you’re 8. And but the niche would have to be the younger people. But I don’t want to preclude the people of our generation. And part of my website, I have the bridge to communicate, because I am fortunate to have the empathy. To say, hey, us guys in Generation X, we need them if you want to pass the torch to someone who can do it right and not just be good on electronics.

 

[ 00:17:54,190 ]Cubicle and they need us. So how are we going to gather and talk and have some empathy from each position, right? A little empathy and patience from our side and a lot of educating on interpersonal skills down here because unintended consequences by no fault of their own. You take the average person and say, ‘Hey, I’ve got this thing for you.’ Your kid won’t cause you any grief. You’ll have no more sleepless nights, right? You have no more tantrums in the restaurant. You and your husband can take that one night a week and actually have peace. And when you come home from work and the kid’s crying, you can give them that. And guess what? You can have a drink, watch television, talk to your wife. Perfect. Pacifies everything like that.

 

[ 00:18:29,830 ]It’s hard to blame anyone. Until they’re 13, right? Exactly. And now you know what happens. So we’re in it. We are in the thick of it. Yeah. So let’s talk about the economics of that. The world’s kind of on autopilot, marching towards you know, improve stock price and profitability and and all those things. So soft skills like this, and the economics that right, and the risk of not considering the soft skills, and what the implications of ignoring it and continuing to push for profit over people. Exactly. And I don’t think my contention is no one is going to sign a purchase order over an email, right? No one’s going to sign one over a direct message or a text, right? Or if they do, it’s back to profitability. Yeah.

 

[ 00:19:13,220 ]And is it just a race to the bottom? And it becomes a transaction. And I still think, if you’re going after a contract for multiple Facilities, let’s say for any product or service, that ultimately you’re going to have to make a presentation in person. Because there’s that innate need to touch, see, and feel the person who’s going to get our million dollars, $15 million, $20 million. The smaller the transaction, the less important that’ll be. But I’ve often said this, and you guys tell me if you’ve ever heard this: I want to call this a Sullivan original, but I could be wrong. I teach in my class. I take out a real estate agent’s card. I can grab anyone.

 

[ 00:19:47,540 ]And what’s on a real estate agent’s business card, not that a lot of the younger people know what those are anymore, but you know what you have on a business card from a real estate agent. Exactly. Why? You ever thought about it? Relationship. Yeah, take it further. If most people, the single largest transaction they’re ever going to make in their life is a home. Right. You better believe they want to see the face and the body language of the person who potentially could be a person. Immediately. Go in my car. It has my picture. Immediately. That’s right. Second group that puts their face out on billboards and things are lawyers. Yes. And why? Take that through, same thing. Same slightly different. These people are going to save your marriage, or save your funds, as a result of it.

 

[ 00:20:32,040 ]Keep you out of jail, or put you in jail, right? Or help you through some of the most difficult, stressful things in your life, whatever they may be. It’s important that you establish trust. Exactly. And just someone’s body language, you could put 10 pictures. Pictures next to each other and you know this, and look at slides and go, ‘Yes, yes, no, oh, absolutely not, yes— maybe you know what I mean? Exactly. I’ve always said that in my classes. So when you bring in the body language component to communication, and that’s part of the presentations, right? How important it is that element in business, no matter what you’re doing. Right? I think I believe it will always be around, and I think the Gen Z and Millennials who get that now—yes— will be the one that ascend to the C-suite because they’ll have all of the technical capability.

 

[ 00:21:12,650 ]They’ll walk the walk and talk the talk with all the toys and all the trinkets. And I’d even say that if they don’t have the full technical capability, it gets overcome by the soft skill. So it’s great segue for me. I wrote my book, and on page six or four, I said, ‘I have no technical ability. I’ve been in packaging sales for 22 years.’ I didn’t even know the acronym RSC, which is the biggest acronym in packaging for seven years. Technically, what is it? It’s it’s regular slide container. It’s that box you see with two short flaps and two big flaps. It’s a good old brown box. Yeah, well, it’s got a technical name: RSC. It’s sold tens of thousands of those corrugated boxes. And never knew the title because I never needed it.

 

[ 00:21:54,570 ]And I and and I simply wrote the book saying it’s not ideal to be someone who doesn’t understand their craft technically. But I never did. And I never liked it. And I survived. And I survived because I was authentic. I was sincere. I liked people. I did what I said I was going to do, and I did it as quickly as possible, and I made friends. And you probably gave a crap. Absolutely. And I had the integrity to go. Going to falsify or misrepresent—no, I’m not that i’m holier than thou. I’ve done plenty of bad things, but I always had the the ultimate sale meant to me in a short-term thing than the reputation of building, because I always somehow knew I might lose this one.

 

[ 00:22:34,620 ]But if I’m legitimate and I’m authentic, I’ll get it somewhere down the road. Or they’ll come back. Or they’ll come back. Right. Right. For sure. And you talk to a lot of salespeople now in our age range and they’ll say there’s no loyalty anymore. Right. That’s an easy, convenient, it’s too much of a broad stroke, right? Because I still believe, even with the company pressure of ownership and boards top down, those buyers, purchasers, and strategic people, if you develop that relationship the right way, yeah they’ll give you a way to win it, which makes my thing. Yeah, when you were saying that, you do have, and I would even say potentially a more older Salesforce, right? Our age, maybe a little less, right? But the buyers now are the young.

 

[ 00:23:19,800 ]Nailed it. And so even they’re not in the same organization, right? But they’re in the same different relationship. And the two have to talk to each other. And I’ve been in that situation. We’ll talk about that sometime. And it is hard. It is hard to sell to a millennial who has positional power. Right? They got the checkbook. Yep. And you’re trying to figure out how to do the right thing for your business for you know, your people you’re selling for, but yet deal with not call it deal with, right? That’s even biased in itself, right? But you’re dealing with this. situation that you aren’t prepared for. And it’s really struggle, right? And past experiences, I knew more about the product than the buyer. Yeah. which was really awkward.

 

[ 00:24:06,400 ]And you had to actually pull back on the lever a bit because it was intimidating. They didn’t feel good because you knew more. Right and you had to learn how to just back that off a little bit so that they weren’t so intimidated so that you could have a conversation and you know move forward. So what you’re describing is a business that has a sales team and an office clerk and the usuals. You can help every single one of those sell better because I’ve always said the technicians and people sell. Your salespeople sell, but everybody sells. Exactly. Right. But the flip side is that they sell to a customer who may be younger and younger, is also applicable. And they want to do it by text. Right. And it’s so hard.

 

[ 00:24:53,300 ]We know that 60% of how we communicate what we send and what we receive is nonverbal. The second that you go to any type of digital texting or direct messaging, you’ve lost 60%. The other 30% are vocal because we want to hear the tone, right? The pitch, pace, pause, projection, right? of our voice. 10% is in the actual text, in the words. But yeah, I’ve got a 63-year-old client. Yeah. but we text, but we meet face to face. Exactly. Right. And so it’s a little bit of both. You’re trying to figure out modes of communication that get them to respond. Right. He doesn’t do emails; texting is great, it’s an excellent invention, but it’s— we’ve normalized it as our primary when it was supposed to be supplementary, ancillary.

 

[ 00:25:37,830 ]It was supposed to be a quick, I’m running five minutes late. No need to call, right? Or I’m in a meeting. Now people are writing pages and we’re using them as the intro, the body, and the conclusion. It was never supposed to be that, right? Never at all. And I would coach my client in your position in that because I was thinking, what would I do in that situation? To be vulnerable and authentic enough to go say, ‘Hey, John’ or ‘Joni,’ this is awkward for me because I’m catching, because I’m older, I’m an old guy, I’m catching that maybe you don’t have some of the knowledge that I’m speaking about, and I… I want the sale. I don’t want to come across as i’m either arrogant, or intimidating, or i’m making you feel uncomfortable.

 

[ 00:26:19,700 ]So work with me here. I’m putting my hands up on the table. I want to help you in any way I can, and by no way, if you say you don’t know, could I help you? Right, that’s what I want to do, but I also want you to know—I’m picking up on that— and I really want to do business here. So if you could give me a you know a little grace there, right? People don’t talk like they’d be amazed, right? And it’s interesting because I have so many clients say, ‘I need to rehearse. I need to rehearse and say this.’ And I said, ‘Have you ever been in a meeting in a boardroom? And started, and made a mistake, and just went. Time out, ladies and gentlemen.

 

[ 00:26:51,710 ]I screwed that up.’ And the reason I screwed that up is not because I’m not prepared. It’s because how bad I want this. And I’m anxious, right? And because of that, my throat’s a little bit more dry. I’m nervous. I forgot my deodorant. Exactly. Exactly. My shirt’s on backwards. Right. And again, it’s not. Lack of preparation— it’s from the fact that I want this so much. Yeah, and for whatever that’s worth, I just want to know if I could start over, right? Or just touch on that, because you watch the reaction. Watch the people relate, right? Nobody wants perfect. Sounds nice, but it’s also too polished. Yeah. It’s not relatable. Exactly. And it lacks, like. Were saying it lacks the authenticity, right? Because we all humble and bumble and stumble in little ways, yeah.

 

[ 00:27:36,550 ]Now too much of anything is too much, yeah. When they can see themselves in you, correct? But 27 repetitive deprecations may get a little old. I’m just going to throw this challenge out there. In a world that doesn’t feel safe, how do we get people to open up to often? And vulnerability? It’s, it’s. I don’t know the answer. That is the short answer. Somehow we’ve had people. I don’t know if it’s leadership telling us that showing vulnerability is to be weak as a man, right? And I understand this entire movement of masculinity or things. And I will give credit with the fact that a 13th place trophy is a little bit much in society, right? So I can understand that. But what we do classically in America is we overcorrect.

 

[ 00:28:18,010 ]We all know that. Right. We have a situation happen and we overcorrect. We’ve been taking off our shoes at the airport now for 20, 25 years when we had that problem fixed two years later. Right. Yes. There’s nobody wanted to stop. It’s just a quick little example. But I’ll tell you, it’s. I think that we have got to get back to Letting people understand displaying some vulnerability is what strong people do. And it makes you connect instantly. Tell us about your personal life. What do you like doing outside of work? Well, as you guys know, if you’ve had children, I’m at that age where they really want dad, right? And I’m lucky. They’re 13 and 12 and 14 and 12. They’re 20 months apart. So they’re just in that little gap range.

 

[ 00:29:01,330 ]And it’s great for me. Not so good for my wife. Right. In a sense, they’re so. do the gender identification and let’s go so I’m consumed with athletics with the boys soccer and basketball and the other one’s going to start rowing and crew nice and we’re lucky my wife’s carried most of the heavy water they’re great so I it’s It’s so it’s, you know, It sounds, I don’t want to say boring, but my family is where I spend most of my time. I like to go to the gym still when I can. I’m just saying. Yeah, I love movies, films. I’m very passionate about them. Favorite movie? My favorite movie? Good Will Hunting. Okay. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Good Will Hunting. Second favorite movie. Yeah. Shawshank Redemption. Wow. Yeah, that’s my top one.

 

[ 00:29:45,000 ]Really? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that’s a good one. Excellent. Did you see the New York Times bestseller list that just came out with the top 100 movies by New York film critics? I think it was specifically or a group of professionals. I did not. No. I think it’s from 2000 to now. Okay. There’s a movie, and I’m going to assume you’ve seen it, called Parasite, a Korean film. I have not seen it. Oh, it’s a must-see. Yeah? Must-see. Interesting, I don’t want to tell you a thing about it. It’s subtitles that’s fine, and you gotta see it. Okay now, it was ranked number one. I didn’t get on Netflix, it was number one, and I was pleasantly surprised to see that number one.

 

[ 00:30:22,040 ]I knew it would get on there because, any type of list, when we rank things, you’re going to go that list is worthless because such and such isn’t on there. Right. I didn’t agree with most of the top 25 on that list, but I think they got it right with that— a metaphor— and to have a foreign film hit that right. Yes, wow. It was recommended to me shortly after it came out, it made the rounds, and now it’s making a resurgence because check it out. It’s really worthwhile. Speaking of our age, the 50-year Jaws anniversary. Yeah. Right? That was my favorite of all time, right? Yeah. It’s a great show. If you haven’t watched it, Steven Spielberg’s special, it’s just fascinating. Right.

 

[ 00:30:58,590 ]I mean, you think about 50 years 50 years ago, it hasn’t really been that long. 50 years— that’s amazing. I didn’t go in the water for 1975. Yeah. Well, and I’ve talked to several people. A lot of people didn’t. I know. Right. But my grandpa took us, right? I don’t like— why did my grandpa take us to Jaws? Right. Right. It’s like, because I mean, there were lines and lines and lines, right. And all those kinds of things. So it’s like, yeah, but just technology back then, you know, Steven Spielberg store that was, it could have broken. Right. I mean, he was over budget late. They were already saying he’s done right those kind of things and then they put out the movie and next thing you know he’s it right and that was so for its time so well done.

 

[ 00:31:39,550 ]I was star wars opening night and my older cousin took me 77. Yes, sitting front row, looking up. I never sat in that first front row chair and it felt like I was looking up like this, as a young and boy, I’m not forgetting there were lines out there when he took me. Yeah. But, but back to your board thing with Spielberg, there are certain things that wouldn’t work in that movie. Right. Right. They couldn’t get the tech to work. They couldn’t get the shark to work. And so he had to fill it in. with other things to make you anticipate right so a lot of the underwater shots that you think, ‘there’s nothing there but you’re, you’re, thinking, ‘feel it right.’ Oh, I mean, so he tells that whole story.

 

[ 00:32:18,020 ]It’s pretty fascinating. And in film study classes, they’ll often use Jaws as an example of how sound, effect, of music. Correct. actual action happening or not happening, kind of harmoniously bring you in right. Yeah, because you just remember the way they use that cadence that music and when you sometimes just waiting. Exactly. All of us hung that in the pool with our friends when we were playing shark and all the other stuff we did. Right. And that’s something, and that’s what you do, but it’s. I’m a big film guy, you know, to get back to it. And I love to travel when I can. But I think the teaching aspect, my mom was a teacher. I did some substitute teaching for court schools when I was in law enforcement back in San Diego.

 

[ 00:32:59,660 ]I like interacting. I’m not one who likes to stand in front of 500 people and deliver a message because I lose. That field is right. Yes, yeah. 10, 20 people, classrooms where you can interact and get close and high-five come into mind. You know what I mean? I teach at Purdue. Oh, that’s actually entrepreneurship class. And what you’re talking about, I want them to hear. I really do. And I want them to hear straight from the beginning. You may have the greatest invention in this classroom, but if you can’t speak to it with some interpersonal charisma, you’re never going to get as far as you want. And here’s the thing. Most people think. Well, I was born an introvert. I’m never going to be a light for the party.

 

[ 00:33:39,110 ]I’m never going to be a stand-up comic. No, you’re not. But that’s not what we’re trying to accomplish. A little bit goes a long way. Correct. Just a little bit. Oh, some of the best comics are introverts. Yes. We know this. We know this. We know this, right? And then they get on stage and that’s where they release everything that they’ve had built up. But too many people who ideal candidates for like the block of charisma. But can you really teach charisma? Yeah, you can teach how to be more charismatic. Some people just happen to have a little bit more built up from how they were raised, but it doesn’t mean you can’t. And I tell people all the time, I go, don’t pull back and think you can’t.

 

[ 00:34:15,710 ]Don’t try to measure yourself to Simon Sinek. Okay. On stage. That’s a bar. Yeah. That’s not what you’re trying to be when you deliver. Right. And I, cause I go into the class and incidentally that class, no matter who teaches it, what professional course or what professional trainer, it’s one of the most sought after. Ancillary or additional educational courses for businesses and you name it. It’s generally number one in the curriculum because we have such a fear of speaking publicly. Two, three, yeah, right, and people take that class and I enjoy it so much because I work with a bunch of other pros that do it full-time and I’m I’m the guy who comes from the day job and gets to do it and sometimes I lose money but I love it so much and I always start and I go.

 

[ 00:34:57,270 ]This gentleman or lady who’s my co-facilitator who’s a master facilitator they’re gonna do this so perfectly. And I want you all to know that this is what we get paid to do. But I want you guys, we’re going to judge you on how we go just into two-day course on our recordings. And to the man and woman for five years I’ve been doing it now, probably 40, 45 classes. I’ve done one international. So much confidence. The growth that you see makes it. worthwhile, yeah, and it’s a great team building exercise because, what happens when we’re anxious, when we’re anxious as heck, and we all get in a room together, we reach out and say, ‘Hey, how you doing?’ Game. It’s so we’re nervous right, and it’s horrible to be nervous and anxious before class and on an island, yes.

 

[ 00:35:38,660 ]It forces even introverts to look to each other and start conversations right, and I love it because I just sit back and I watch. A lot of times people will be from the same division, but sometimes companies are so large, right? They don’t know each other, and they’ll sit down and they’ll just go. And you’ll see them go high, and they’ll start talking, right? For a traditional class, they may just sit there and take notes because they know what’s coming. Interesting. They know they’re going to have to interact. They know they’re going to have to interact and they know they’re going to stand up in front of them and it’s the last thing they ever want to do. But they’ll sign up for it and they’ll put themselves through that real.

 

[ 00:36:08,420 ]uncomfortable, anxiety-producing situation in hopes that they can come out a little bit better. And I’ve never seen anyone not. Even the toughest, most challenged, they’ve always done better. Talk about your teaching, though. So when I went, I graduated from San Diego State in criminal justice. I was working as a correctional probation officer and I went and took the emergency substitute teaching credential and I started teaching at juvenile hall on my off days through the court school system. Something simple and easy. But here’s what was great about it. I was a correctional officer on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. And on Thursday, Friday, I had on my shirt and tie and I was Mr. Sullivan. Right. And what’s interesting, a lot of people don’t.

 

[ 00:36:50,050 ]Know this, hopefully they haven’t had the experience of going through the court system with their children, but you’ve got to provide children school access 365. Because when you get arrested and you get into custody and you get into the system, you’re not going to school, so they need to be provided an education. Therefore, there’s a full-blown school within the correctional facility. The teachers will come to the units, or they’ll actually be escorted as a group into different areas of the facility to go to class. So I did that for a year and a half for extra money. I loved it. And then I went and finished my master’s degree. taught a couple of courses at a local community college, white collar crime and administration of justice classes.

 

[ 00:37:25,870 ]And then I got into this company that I worked for, Baker Communications. and it’s for their exceptional presentations block, their relationship building block, time management, sales methodology, all where people wanted to be there. And I just find it fascinating because you guys know you get an engaged person. Totally different. Totally different, right? And it’s been fantastic. So all this is coming together and I’ve been fighting it with the most terminal case of imposter syndrome you’ve ever had. You’ve ever seen in this chair is the most terminal case. And that’s another thing I use when I said, you guys think I’m confident? And they’ll go, yeah, broad shoulder, square jaw, big head. You’ve got a big projection voice. So I’m terrified. I’m scared. I’m scared I’m going to let you down.

 

[ 00:38:08,240 ]I’m scared that I’m swimming in a lane I shouldn’t be. I have all the credibility. I check all the boxes and I’m terrified. And it makes no sense. It’s universal. Yeah. Other than people that don’t have the ability to regulate their thoughts. Right exactly. That’s right. I’m not sure the right term. Right. So beyond arrogance, it’s like once you’re there, then it kind of is a whole different game. But everybody else has it, if they’re humble enough to admit it. That’s the thing. And what you find out this whole ‘fake it till you make it’ was really a phrase that was canned to overcome that, right? If you kind of think about it, you put it together. And it’s amazing to me.

 

[ 00:38:45,370 ]I look at it and I go, ‘There’s no way I can do this.’ And I talk to everybody in my life and they go, ‘No one was born more than I’ve ever met than you to do this.’ Yeah, I get that sense. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. And I go, ‘Oh, man.’ And then you just sit there and it’s crazy. Well, and I think this is part of your story, too. You told us before we started that things are unfolding. The hard part is it’s not the skill. Right. You’ve got that. Right. It’s the business. Yes. The business part of it. Correct. And sometimes that’s the hardest part. Yes. Right. And if I’m a plumber, I want to go start my own plumbing business.

 

[ 00:39:21,090 ]I know plumbing, but all of a sudden you’re introduced to a whole different world of the business and revenue and profit and cost, and expenses and cashflow and holy moly, right? And so you’re going through that same thing, right? And this is why it’s necessary to have what you do from what we talked about, because you’ve got the idea. And what’s interesting and topical to this is I, in my packaging professional career, I had two shark tank winners. Actually, that I’ve worked with out of their homes, right? Nice. I had a great idea. The world saw it right; they signed their contracts and then, when they got into their garage, and they had to build a business, they had no idea they needed you. They needed you guys, right?

 

[ 00:39:59,010 ]And I have ended up telling—um— because I’ll not so much in my current role; it’s more established, larger companies. But when I was working for the privately owned, I would have clients of all sizes, customers of all sizes, and we would get people. I’ve got my grandmother’s best chocolate peanut butter ball for Christmas— you’ve ever tasted— and I’m going to market, right? And you don’t want to ever kill anyone’s dreams, right? And I would end up saying to them, and you guys have probably heard this. I said, whatever it costs you, you’ll love this. Let’s say it costs you a dollar to get the peanut butter ball ready to go to market. You need to have at least $2 per peanut butter ball to market. At least.

 

[ 00:40:32,630 ]Even though you know in your heart, it’s the best chocolate covered peanut butter ball ever made. Nobody else knows. Nobody else knows. And they won’t. And I add one more: they don’t care. and that’s all it’s hard to say, and you watch people’s reaction is like, what are you and they just don’t. Because your parents might, your neighbor might, because they know you, right? Exactly. Once you get beyond friends, family, and buddies. Thank you. I knew it was something like that. You get below that now all of a sudden you’re in the dark world, correct and they don’t care. Yes, you’ve got to make them care and that’s the hard part, and so yeah, it’s that’s a absolute universe. And it’s, it’s that marketing thing.

 

[ 00:41:09,930 ]And I know you teach this to your students, right— at Purdue, and this is your livelihood, right? Your passion. You’ve got to be able to get that message out the right way. And the skill of. how can you do it different? Because in my book I wrote, I heard one of the greatest lines is: ‘Being different is better than being better.’ Isn’t that a great line? Yeah, it’s perfect. And I’ll tell you, and what that means to me, and it can mean different things, is that you can light yourself on fire and you’re going to get everyone’s attention, right? Or you can just come in the same way. Something to ping someone’s limbic side of their brain to be drawn to you. Good pattern interrupt.

 

[ 00:41:47,640 ]and it that and the purple cow, if you ever read that, that’s where that came from right. but yet, what do we do? we see cookie cut presentation idea, you know what. i’ll do. i’m going to bring an energy drink to market right. because we only have 147 right. but i’ll be 148 and mine will be better. but they won’t spend the money or have it allotted to market. there. why is it better? yeah right. exactly. if you don’t have the why, forget it. no one’s going to try and figure it out on their own not at all. my favorite example is liquid death. yeah. oh yeah. marketing geniuses. i mean, just truly marketing red bull. same way right? genius. i was red bull. i did all of red bull’s displays.

 

[ 00:42:25,910 ]that’s what launched my career. other in-store displays for a few years. nice. out of southern california where their headquarters was. yeah right. so you gotta have the why. and my why is simply this. We’re losing our interpersonal skills and we need each other and we’re drifting apart. We’re pulling apart, and soon, as we that happens, it makes it easier to press buttons and make decisions to harm humanity. Yeah, it sure does. Oh yeah, right. Oh yeah, and you see that. And that’s my big, exactly. Right. And that’s my fear. And we talk about the, what do they call them? Keyboard warriors or something. Yeah. People will launch the most insulting, hurtful, distracting comments that can tear someone apart, right? With a click of a button. Yeah.

 

[ 00:43:09,820 ]All because they were having a bad day, and you triggered them. Right. Because of their position. Well, and I would even argue today we’re starting to see it’s moving beyond the keyboard. Much more. Right. Much more so. Well, you know, monkey see, monkey do. The second we normalize classless behavior and we accept it, floodgates are open. Yeah, right. And that’s horrible because, and you know, there are certain levels of decorum that I just think should be kept. And I don’t want to sound overly conservative or like an old guy, but I think we can’t live where everything just does anything they want, right? Then all hell’s gonna bust chaos. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So somewhere there’s a balance in the middle, you know. And I…

 

[ 00:43:49,440 ]I was i saying to my cousin, saying, you know, I’d like to run for president as a third-party candidate and just say, ‘I.’ On day one, go, there’s going to be term limits across the board because everybody I know agrees with term limits, right? Who doesn’t? Who doesn’t? Where is the candidate who says, ‘I have one reason, my calling to this role is for that, for our country.’ And one more thing, I will not run in year four for a re-election. Because if you don’t know me the first three years, you’re not. What does it matter? I haven’t done my job. Why does any candidate have to go solicit tens of millions, hundreds of millions of dollars to run again? We missed out somewhere there.

 

[ 00:44:26,090 ]So I go up there and I say those two things. Yeah, thumbs off. My first day and every day I’m in office, I will push forward term limits. And then I’ll let you know every House of Representative member and every congressman and every senator who votes against this. And I’ll let you people of America decide. But my calling is. Term limits, because we all agree, that’s our quickest fix to how we’re spiraling out of control. Right? And then I’m not going to run again unless you guys want me to. But I won’t. I won’t take that money from people when that could be used something else. Yes, right. It’s that—no, it’s that’s not necessary. If I do my job now, you’ll want me. If you don’t, I got my message across, which you are all supporting.

 

[ 00:44:59,650 ]If I get elected, right? It’s just such a system that’s fraught—unless you’re not, and you would go correct, right? Yeah, absolutely. I would go quickly and gracefully, right? And do all the things you do. I tried, I did my best. Right? And do all the things you do to welcome the incoming person and say, ‘It’s your torch now, do us well,’ right? I came in and I tried to affect this change. It didn’t get voted in, for whatever reason. But I am, I believe, something happened. When you get in that seat. And when you get out. You got a gag order. Sure. You can’t say what you saw behind the curtain. Right. It really is the Wizard of Oz. It truly is. Yeah, it truly is. Right. So great.

 

[ 00:45:36,320 ]You just brought up the Wizard of Oz. Right? And I use this analogy. It’s one of my top movies. Yeah. You, by the way, for that, by the way, because it’s excellent. So what happens in the Wizard of Oz? We go and we see the wizard and we’re scared, right? This great, big, all-knowing, everything, right? What ends up happening when you pull the curtain back? You see just a man, but what does he say to each of the characters? You’ve had courage in you all along, right? Go home, Dorothy. Your family loves you, right? He gives the simplest, soft skill interaction to each person and it changes them, like that. Not the great big corporate monster, know it all, be it all. You need to be big, strong, tough.

 

[ 00:46:15,130 ]But at the very base, they pull the curtain back. You see, just a man who fixes their problems through empathy and soft skills. It’s kind of a cool analogy when you think about it for what you’re trying to accomplish right and so I was talking with somebody and we worked that through and I said, what a great time, especially when you love the movie, because you realize that’s the moment it’s like the crescendo if you will, when he says, ‘You’ve had this in you the whole time.’ Exactly. I just didn’t know it. Right. And we need that as people. Right. We need that. We need someone in our life, but we’re all in the rat race. And I always. I felt my calling was, you’re bigger, you’re stronger.

 

[ 00:46:50,900 ]You represent something in someone that you’re not. So speak to the opposite of that. Right. This morphed of all things, this will make you laugh. This what I’m doing morphed into restaurant hospitality, customer experience. Please, please in foreign countries, how to do business with Americans. And when I did the pitch to Tanzania. I said, as an iceberg, I just said, you know, gentlemen, if you were to look up American in the encyclopedia, there might be a picture of me. Right. I’m very believable. Right. And, you know, I could say that in Dubai. I could say many of you probably don’t know this, but I’m American. Right. See if they would pick up on the wit or the dry sense of humor and say.

 

[ 00:47:33,300 ]Because I look the part and I know the part, I want to speak about the part. Let’s play the part. Right, so I go into a five-star resort over in wherever and I play with the staff, the managers. Usually, it’s going to be train the trainers. Right. It’s going to be this— level of expectation for this amount of money. That you expect, but more so, here are some tips, tricks, and strategies that grab our heart, that make us remember when we go back to either return or tell people, because we all know, you know, referral right. So that’s what we’re marketing absolutely right. Yes. Yeah. Just had that conversation with somebody who came back from the Dominican Republic. Yes. Nice resort. High end. No one smiled. The whole time?

 

[ 00:48:14,220 ]The whole time on the staff. None of them. Wow. And guess what? They talk, right? I mean, this is where, you know, it just destroys. It also informs, you know, people, hey, maybe I don’t want to go back there. None of those people were happy. Correct. You know, I went to Turks Caicos with my family this past spring break to Beaches Resort, the Beaches Sandal. I did a ton of research for family resorts. It comes up consistently top three in the world. So I bankrupt us to go. And it was the single worst experience I’ve ever had. Really? Oh my goodness. Yeah. And I, it wasn’t Disney world. Oh, I blow torch them. And it took them a month to reach out to me. And they missed me.

 

[ 00:48:51,590 ]It took them another three weeks to get back to me. And the manager who called me said, ‘I just wanted to talk to you about this’ and I politely said, ‘You know, I want to let you know that I actually teach hospitality.’ So I have a little bit more vested interest in how we’re going to have this conversation, for whatever it’s worth, to you, because I know you’re the manager. I said, it’s been almost two months. There’s almost nothing you can say to correct that. Fast forward, he said, well, we’d like to offer you two free days if you’d like to come back. And I said, only if I can coach. I said, no, I didn’t. That would have been great though, right?

 

[ 00:49:23,610 ]What I said to him was, I said, it was such a bad experience. If you offered me to come back for a week free, I wouldn’t. And I let that sit for a second. And he said, ‘He said, ‘He said, ‘I’m so sorry to hear that, but I understand. He said, ‘what could we do to make this right? And I said, ‘I said, ‘I said, ‘I don’t need the money. I said, ‘but at the very least, you should have offered me a 50% cash refund. To the entire cost of my trip, at the very least. I said, ‘but if you’re asking me what I think you should do, just give me 100% of my money back.

 

[ 00:49:53,690 ]That’s what’s right in my mind because I methodically wrote the review with every single thing that went wrong.’ To include our first 15 minutes, which was the toilet was broke, the safe was broke, and they brought us luggage that’s just how it started. Right, but what was even worse than that, actually, that wasn’t how it started. The first thing that started is, as we were being walked to our room, we noticed the drape over the construction fence where they were building another unit right on this side and on the back side. All we saw and heard was construction workers, but that was never told to us. I said, ‘So that’s how we started,’ which I could have overlooked. Had we been informed? Had we been informed?

 

[ 00:50:28,670 ]And then I could have overlooked every other little thing. See, pennies add up to dollars. And what happens is you get to a point where those pennies are no longer pennies— a penny’s a $10 bill every time a mistake comes to becoming exponential because there’s synergy there, right? And I said that what you should do is wealthy and successful as you are, you should have got on it the next day. We’ve had a conversation and I would probably wrote hate spoke to the hotel and had been done that’s what you want that’s what you want to do right. You had an opportunity here to send me to take care of this where I could get back on the review and say, ‘Folks, I wrote this review.’ It was a very bad experience.

 

[ 00:51:03,990 ]Nothing’s changed except for one thing that was necessary and it was done right. The hotel reached out and they made it right with me. Review like that, I would consider going 100. But if it’s unanswered by that, you better believe it— you’re teaching this, and you’re teaching this, you get a bad review. It’s an excellent opportunity to make yourself relatable. No one’s perfect. Hey, Mr. Smith, tried to call you three times. We haven’t connected yet. We are. I promise you, you will not be paying for that tub refinishing job I did. And I’m ready to schedule as soon as you are. That makes me want the person more. Exactly. They’re trying to fix it, correct? You know this, and I know this. This is the simple parts of interpersonal skills and acting that we want, that we’re starved for.

 

[ 00:51:47,160 ]And you think this happens, and I’m here to tell you, it’s the rare. I got to know what ended up happening. What was the resolution? How’d the call end? He said, ‘So it was really funny because he offered me the two days, and I said.’ I think a 50% rebate would be the bare minimum, but I would have offered a full rebate, is what should have done. And he said, ‘Well, know what let me talk to my my manager about that right? Which was only more insulting.’ He would know this because now it was like you just wanted to play ‘let’s make a deal how far were we going to go in negotiations? Right? So I was so insulted, he never reached back out. It’s still an opportunity.

 

[ 00:52:23,710 ]Correct right. Maybe it’s a week and half of it is training. And you’re going to pay me. And I’ll tell you, it was the most beautiful beach, the most beautiful water you can imagine. The island’s going through a reputational problem with crime and gangster. I didn’t see because we were secluded. And I’m not that— I’m not that guy. I’m not like, ‘Hey, I grew up on welfare in a single parent household. Right. So I’m not uppity. I’ve made a nice life for my family, but I recognize. It’s not going to be all be five stars. It was so unacceptable across the board. I couldn’t believe it. I could not believe it. And I’m not just talking about the band-aids in the water, right? And the pool, and all the scum in the corners.

 

[ 00:52:56,560 ]No, I’m not talking about that. Right? I’m not talking about that. I would have overlooked it. But you know, again, at the end of the day, for whatever reason. I’m old enough to remember when there were certain rules. How are you? And excuse me, right? And we’re so mad at each other, and this, and then there’s lots of, you know, it’s the digital technology, it’s the 24-hour cable news, right? And I love it when I talk to my meathead friends who go. Amen. I’m smart enough to know when I’m being conned. I know right from wrong, right? Yeah, I get it. I don’t know. If I told you the earth was flat 24-7 and all your friends at the bar that you had a beer with told you the earth was flat, you’re going to think the earth is flat, right?

 

[ 00:53:39,560 ]And that’s exactly what we’re seeing. And I said, none of us— you, me, anyone— we’re not. We can’t escape that. We’re that’s just the human psyche. If you surround yourself with a group of people that all believe and feel the same thing, and you don’t have outside educational experiences, this is what we get. And that net result is we’re angry. And before our parents would say, ‘Hey, you’re angry,’ but you work it out or you go talk it out, right? Now we just sit on that anger and that anger stays till the next angry thing. And it building blocks up. And then what you’re seeing is fist fights between people and shoving matches. Back to the airplane. Exactly. And all the insanity, right? Wow. So your book. Yeah.

 

[ 00:54:20,220 ]Feather sharpens iron, right? Okay. Yes. So tell us about that. Full disclosure, I’m not a church goer and I don’t read the Bible, but iron sharpens iron was. It was a phrase that came to my mind because I kept thinking I needed a title for the book and I wanted it to be different. Right? So one day, I don’t know how I kept thinking, how do I take soft and hard skills? and figure something out, right? Because the whole book is based on soft skills being more important. And I thought, ‘Iron sharpens iron. anvil iron what if a feather? What if feather sharpens iron? Right. And the gal who did all of my artwork for the book she said, ‘It’s incredible and she came up with that image. Okay, that’s a great visual.

 

[ 00:55:01,670 ]Everyone who’s seen it— man and woman—has said, ‘Wow, right?’ It’s really powerful when you, especially if you know the background of it, but even if you don’t, just looking at the visual going, ‘What?’ Heck, is that? And that’s what you want in marketing, right? What is that about? Well, it’s soft skills basically coming together with hard skills and making you the absolute best you can be. And I was vulnerable in the book, and I wanted to be. I opened it up real early and go, ‘Hey, here’s all my weaknesses.’ And I want you all to know them. And I went through them and they were fun. And I said, ‘Here’s how I overcame them.’ And then the book takes off and does, and I break down different soft skills, right?

 

[ 00:55:37,110 ]I took 10. And at the end of each chapter, I tell a story, right? Something that’s entertaining and pertinent that ties in. And then at the end, I give some practical application tips on how to get better. Wouldn’t be a book that a seasoned salesperson or someone who’s charismatic necessarily wants or needs. It’s a great refresher, it’s for everybody else, it’s for anyone coming out of high school or in high school, and not mine. I don’t mean to be self-serving, but the topic should be mandatory, right? You know what I mean? How do we buy? Oh, Amazon. Let me just say this. I think it’s important if you’ve ever wanted—I think I could write a book on how to write a book with my experience, because I really did everything the wrong way as I went through it, but it was still wonderful and um, Amazon.

 

[ 00:56:17,440 ]I haven’t made a dollar on any, I don’t know, I think I’ve sold a thousand. Amazon has. Amazon makes all that money. That’s fine. I haven’t. And I wanted it to be hardcover and I wanted it to have color. And that priced me out of any legitimate price for a person who might be interested. I sat in my seat and said, ‘I don’t like paperback black and white. It’s just always been a thing for me.’ Boring and the texture I just didn’t like it, so I only gave that option right when I went on knowing well I thought only my mother might read it anyhow. When I right I did it, but I wanted to go through the experience and have the credibility of an author because dirty little secret: if you’re an author, you’re an expert.

 

[ 00:56:54,120 ]Right? It’s magic. It’s magic. It’s just. It’s just nice to be able to have that credibility to say, I spent a year of my life taking my experiences and filtering and articulating those so that others could benefit, taking in research when it was applicable. I didn’t want it to be a research-heavy book. I wanted it to be a fun book because it’s authentic and I don’t like people who are too formal. My first page is why do people a quote by a woman I forget why do people swear because sometimes darn it just doesn’t cut it and I I use profanity in business meetings I don’t use it a lot, but I will insert it in a sentence or a statement for impact and effect.

 

[ 00:57:32,340 ]And you watch everybody go bing as soon as you drop a word, right? It’s a pattern interrupt. Exactly. I thought you were going to say, why do people wear ties? That’s right. Which I stopped in as a Southern Californian, which is where I’ve spent most of my life. Those were gone decades ago, right, in the boardroom. But you’re still in New York. You’ll get some old school people who are like, I don’t care what it is, have a tie on when you come in here. But you’re selling packaging, and people are like, you’re bringing a suit and tie. I think you’re either disingenuous, you’re the IRS, or I’m going to court. And over. Perfect. Don’t do that. Right. So, but yeah, the book, the book was a great experience and it’s a fun read.

 

[ 00:58:10,530 ]And like I said, that topic should be required reading. Again, not mine, but that topic should be required. I’d also tell you, given your pipes, you ought to do an audio. Yeah. Even if it’s a discussion. of the book right, if I had a dollar for everyone who told me that. When you know me and my friends, will read the first 10 pages right now. Go it’s haunting. Yeah and this would be anyone you know. Your life it’s haunting to hear it read and hear your voice yes at the same time yes yeah and I would imagine. You know it’s been on my mind to do it. Look, I just gave you. Yes same thing. Is it awesome? Well so it’s not on audible. It’s not on audible.

 

[ 00:58:44,510 ]It’s just hard copy right now. And I was going to do a paperback in color maybe re-release. I spent zero marketing dollars on the book. I had so many of my friends and family support me of course. That got a number one ranking a couple times on Amazon right. So hey, I get to up in front of someone say, I was the number one you know seller on Amazon right for three days in two categories. Perfect. I had no idea that was coming but that’s what love and investing in your friends and family will do. That was it. I didn’t put a dollar. Into marketing, and I was getting bombarded with all these companies saying, ‘I’ll market it, I’ll make you famous, and I just—I didn’t have the money.’ You get suspicious right?

 

[ 00:59:21,130 ]Thank you. So I’ll close with this. You get suspicious because everyone’s saying the same thing and you haven’t shaken their hand and heard anything more— or gotten to feel what they’re like in front of you, right? So when you’re going to put your business on, hey, I can do this, that, and that for you and send them DM messages and LinkedIn messages. And I heard somebody say, ‘ChatGPT and AI is fantastic. It’s a great tool.’ Someone just said it’s the second greatest invention since the splitting of the atom. Some guy said, ‘This is the invention, sure, for the next thousand years.’ They said, and then another guy I heard say, ‘When in sales profession or marketing, when people are all getting the perfect message from every single person who reaches out to them, they’re going to be starved for somebody.

 

[ 01:00:07,870 ]Less than perfect and different and truly different—yes, different and to embrace it. The analogy is this: it’d be like getting 10 Shakespearean love letters every day. Right. And then having somebody write one from their own desk and their own heart. Yes. Who are you going to go to? Right. And we’re going to evolve to a place. Write one like Emerson wrote one. Exactly. Evolve to maybe a year, maybe 20 years. We’re going to evolve to a place where your soft skills and your interpersonal skills, your authenticity to do all those pattern interrupts will catapult you to the front of the line because it’s the easy way out. Haunting how great ChatGPT and AI is. It’s haunting. And I hate it because— But it’s also an opportunity for us to stand out.

 

[ 01:00:47,550 ]Correct. Shadechaser. org because I couldn’t get . com. Someone had it and I was upset and they wouldn’t sell it. No one was doing it. They just sit in it, right? It’s perfect for a training organization though, right? Yeah. Vet and he said you sure you want to do shade chaser because maybe someone thinks shady or something like that. I said no. I love the name because it’s sentimental to me and there’s a story and it’s different enough to get people curious. You go there and you get it instantly with the nautical theme. By the way, that was on a shoestring budget. So I know it’s imperfect, but you got to start someplace right. Exactly. You got to kick it off and go. I just went with it. Awesome. Well, thanks for coming today. Guys, thank you from the bottom of my heart. This is beyond cool for me. Thanks for coming on. It’s been great having you. Yeah. Thanks. Thank you. That’s all. Have a good day. That’s all, folks. Thank you. Thank you.