[ 00:00:12 ]I’m Adam Hayes; to my left is my co-host Bob Payden. Good afternoon. Across the table from us today is Lauren Taylor with Holder Mattress Company. She is the owner and president. True story! Welcome! So, Holder Mattress Company, it’s been around and it’s kind of an icon in the state. Well, tell us about what’s current today. Yeah, so we are 77 years old and my grandfather founded the company, and I am the third-generation owner. It has, you know, we’ve been through it all. We’ve seen it all in the last several years. And so, yeah, we’re just keeping it going. Cool! So, in the mattress industry, what are the secrets that the public doesn’t know about? Oh, how much time do you have? I always joke that, like, I know the things about mattresses.

 

[ 00:01:01 ]Yeah, I know the things about mattresses you don’t want to know. Yeah, our industry is interesting, especially because, over the past several years, so much of it has become an import industry. So, not just raw materials, but the actual products themselves are now being imported. In fact, you have U. S. steel that’s being exported to then be turned into mattresses and be imported and somehow still sold at retail for less than I can build one that’s made here. So, our industry has been majorly by Chinese dumping, by those same companies now trying to sort of find loopholes by exporting to Mexico. And so we’re sort of fighting a much larger battle in building mattresses than ever before. And so that’s huge.

 

[ 00:01:51 ]Flame retardancy has been a huge burden on our industry that wiped out a lot of local manufacturers going back to 2007. So it’s been an interesting few. Go down that. What do we not know? This is a rabbit hole. Okay, so there was legislation passed. It began in California, go figure, that mattresses needed to be more flame retardant than they had currently been. And so this legislation that was passed meant that stricter requirements in a cigarette burn test were protecting. The people that are falling asleep in bed with lit. That’s literally the point of this, right? Preventing Darwinism. Yes, that’s the helmet law of mattresses. So essentially, you have to hold a blowtorch to a mattress for 20 minutes, and only a certain percentage of it can burn.

 

[ 00:02:43 ]And surely those chemicals aren’t harmful to, right? In order to accomplish that, there are ways to do it, but most of them involve antimony trioxide, boric acid— known carcinogens. Right, but it’ll protect the So there’s that. Right. Because we are in Indiana, and Indiana basically requires us to adhere to the federal minimum, we don’t have to pass as stringent. of burn tests as a national brand that’s sold in all 50 states. So I cannot sell my mattresses in California; I can sell them in Arizona and they can ship them across the border on their own. But I can’t sell directly to California because they have the strictest guidelines. But that also means that I can use things like wool, low melt polyester in lower lines to achieve the same federal minimum standard without having to add all the nasty stuff to the mattresses to make them good enough for California.

 

[ 00:03:39 ]Gotcha. Yes, the most healthy natural state of them all. Do you miss California? Not at all. Really expensive to ship out there anyway. Didn’t have a lot of business from that area, but for us, because we build our products, we’re not just selling them. I’m as concerned about my employees that have their hands and faces in the materials on a regular basis as I am about someone who would sleep on it. So, and where do you build them? Kokomo, Kokomo. Yeah, just a jog north. Yeah. Yeah. Has it always been in? It has always been in Kokomo. Yeah. So, it’s a long story, but the short version would be my grandfather and his brother got back from World War II, needed a They were from Oklahoma, ended up getting into the automotive industry, and that was what brought them to Kokomo.

 

[ 00:04:35 ]And a layoff. basically right away sort of forced them into finding other ways to make ends meet. And they had a friend who taught them how to repair mattresses because at the time steel’s crazy expensive. People aren’t buying, so they’re. And that led to them building a couple of their own. They got a good order from Grissom Air Force Base. I know Grissom. Yeah, that resulted in like 1, 000 profit and the first store was born. So the legend is like 1, 000 and six Rusty Springs later, we had a. Right. For the first several years they did laundry. Did those come with tetanus shots? Yeah, exactly. No one cared about that stuff back. But they did laundry to kind. of make it work and then eventually it grew legs and here we are.

 

[ 00:05:20 ]Right. So you guys have always had a reputation for quality and particularly customer service and really taking care of your customers. Where did that mindset get born? Oh my grandfather. 100 That’s how I was raised. You’re building them for your neighbors. These are the people that you go to church with, that you meet at the grocery store, that your children are friends with. So you wanna build the best thing you can for your neighbors. Sure. And so it was not skimping in the process at all. Everything was done by hand, each layer individually attached. It was making sure. that the quality of the raw material we’re purchasing is the best that we can. And we still do that. I still go above and beyond to find raw materials that are either made here in or at least made as locally as possible. Sure, whether it’s close states, our furthest material comes from Connecticut. So we really are focused on the raw materials and making sure that everything is as local as possible and that it’s the best quality we can get. We still build a two-sided, flippable mattress.

 

[ 00:06:52 ]Yeah. So what are some unique considerations that people should consider, like to find a quality bed that, um, you know, fits them and fits their sleep. style and and helps them, you know, recover during the night. Yeah, well, I first would recommend actually being able to try that product in a store. There are so many. Are you still in the design center? We have a location in Carmel in the Indiana design center, and we have the location Kokomo off U. S. 31 across from the Kokomo Mall. So, um, yeah, we do have local locations, but I think it’s good to come in and try it. You’re going to spend a third of your life, if you’re lucky, on it.

 

[ 00:07:29 ]And you know, you want to make sure you put some time and effort into actually physically trying the the way I could describe it or the way you could be described it to on. A website would give you some idea, but that doesn’t really tell you how it’s going to impact your. So if you can try it, that’s number one. Um, number two is comfort. It’s gotta feel good. It’s gotta feel good. So even if it doesn’t have all the features you’re looking for, it isn’t going to last as long. If you love it and you want to sleep on it, you would buy it more quickly without hesitation. Um, we occasionally have people who buy elsewhere and aren’t happy. And so instead of buying what is comfortable, they want to buy something that they think is going to last.

 

[ 00:08:08 ]So I’ve got to talk them out of that. Just because you bought a bad one doesn’t mean. that pillow tops are wrong for you. Right? Let’s get you a good one because that’s what your body really needs. So there’s that. I also think that a good conversation with a knowledgeable salesperson, which I would say in any industry is tops, right? If you can talk to somebody who really knows the product, really knows the market, really can help you connect the dots because there’s a lot of bad information on the internet. You could become a great researcher with a lot of misinformation. So instead of relying on your own research, talk to someone who’s in the industry, who’s done it for a long time, whose purpose is to help you.

 

[ 00:08:51 ]So If you can spend some time with the salesperson, really talk about how you use it, how you sleep, things like that. That’s important; it’s part of your life. Our goal as salespeople is to make sure that you have the product that you’re happy with, that you tell your friends about, and that you write a great review for. So, you know, that’s what we’re looking for. I’m not trying to meet the price point you want to spend; I’m not trying to meet the Labor Day sale you’re trying to take advantage of, right? We want you to have this product for 10 to 15 years. Let’s find the right one, but let’s have a conversation, and let’s let’s do it organically. Sure. So what’s what’s that like when maybe a buyer of a previous mattress in a box walks in right?

 

[ 00:09:37 ]Well usually those are the easy ones because they’re already upset. Yeah. So they’re looking for something different. The harder sales are the people we’ve had that are you they’re happy, but they think there’s maybe they’re missing out. Maybe there’s some new technology or something they’ve they’ve bought into enough marketing that they, you know, those are harder I guess to sell to. You mean the space age materials? So what does an ideal client look like to you and how do they come to find out about Holder Mattress? Well, we have a lot of people who’ve always known about us, right? So we’ve been around so long that we have a reputation for quality. We have a reputation for local, we have a reputation for great service.

 

[ 00:10:20 ]And so people seek us out, or people there are people who’ve never slept on anything else. Families have always believed in our product. So those are great because, you know, we don’t have to sell them on who we are. But outside of that, I am looking for someone who is ready to make an investment in their health, who are really concerned about how they’re going to use this product, what benefits it offers to them, and who are willing to open up and have an honest conversation about what their needs are, what they’re looking for, what they’re currently dissatisfied with. It is very rare that someone just doesn’t have a mattress at all, right? Typically, you’re shopping because you have a product at home that’s not meeting your needs. So let’s talk about that.

 

[ 00:11:03 ]So, someone who’s willing to be open and have a conversation and, you know, really just spend some time with us and actually lay down on some beds in the store and get comfortable and talk about how it feels. So once they came in and picked out a, I’m presuming you deliver it and take their old one away? Yeah. So typically the process. is you come in, we try some sets; we figure out what works for you. We talk about some options you have for those sets and different customizations and things that are possible. And then we will build your set for you after you’ve ordered it. So you typically have time; typically depends on what you order, but if it’s standard, it’s usually maybe two to three weeks on average.

 

[ 00:11:41 ]But we’re going to build it from scratch, and we’re going to make it exactly the way you want it. And then our staff that builds also is the same staff that delivers, so they make sure that it is properly installed, that they’re, you know, set up for success from the beginning. We make sure that everything’s well supported at home. We go through all of the fine print, if you will. It’s not all that fine in our particular case, but we want you to know what you’re expected to do as far as use and care and things like that. So we’ll kind of go through that whole process with you and make sure that you’re happy with everything before we walk away. We might remind you a few months down the road to flip your mattress, right?

 

[ 00:12:20 ]Make sure that you’re keeping up with it. But you know, it’s a it takes a couple of, but a fairly quick process based on the amount of time you’re going to have it. Cool. So what was your entree into the business. Oh, well, that I was never supposed to be here. Yeah. So, uh, I went to college with the idea that I was going to write the next great novel. I have a creative writing degree. I thought, I’ll just travel to Europe and write a book. And, you know, then I realized no one was going to finance that project for me, and I didn’t have a way to finance it myself. So, um, the summer.

 

[ 00:13:04 ]The people who were running it at the time were not my parents, but, um, part of their, you know, one of my mom’s brothers and his family, who was sort of running the business at the time, they were sort of going through some stuff, some personal stuff, right? And in that happening. they sort of let the business kind of fall to the side. And so my 21st birthday, there was a meeting where my parents had to sit down and decide whether or not they wanted to save it or if we should just let it go. And, um, I said, well, I I’ll do it, I’ll do it. I, I was raised in that factory. I, you know, I used to, my mom and dad had a job.

 

[ 00:13:46 ]I would go with grandpa to the factory. I, I knew the ropes. I thought, I’ll do it. Sure. And they tried to talk me out of that, um, cause they knew more than I did, right? But I was ready. I was like, do anything else, really? That would be great. Um, but I jumped in head first and, you know, didn’t care that there wasn’t much water in the pool. I thought I’ll figure it out. And so, my senior year, I went back and got took some marketing classes and some business classes, and tried to sort of really quickly teach myself how to run a business. That’s great! Why, what was I thinking? Um, and then, yeah, I just dove in, and I spent, you know, as much time as I could get away from class my senior year working in the store in Carmel.

 

[ 00:14:28 ]And I just, I fell in love with it. It was my first baby, and I wanted to be there all the time. And yeah, I loved every moment of it. So, what year was that? That was 2003. Okay. Yeah, summer of 2003. Yeah, that’s when I jumped in. Does it seem like that long? No, yes and no, I guess I don’t. know, 20 years seems like a long time, but also some days it feels like it’s been a long time. Um, I mean that’s the life of a small business. All right. But, uh, yeah I mean yes and no. I think looking back, it feels like yeah we’ve spent some time doing it, but it also kind of feels like that time has flown by.

 

[ 00:15:11 ]So, what would your now self tell your younger self after 20 years of experience? What my parents told me and like do something else. Really? So that’s the self-reflection you’ve come to? Yeah. Now I understand why they said that, right? Um, for sure. But do you feel like you’ve missed out on something by, you know, just going along with the family legacy? and you weren’t able to express your full creativity or not necessarily. I think that it has enabled me to do a lot of things that I want to do. Um, you know, there’s a lot of creativity that comes from running a business, right? So I’ve been able to sort of exercise that a bit. It, uh, is the reason I met my husband. It’s the reason I have children.

 

[ 00:15:56 ]It’s the reason I’m still close to my parents. It’s provided a lot of great things in my life to this day. It provides me the flexibility to leave the office and pick up a kid from school, or come do a podcast, or whatever. So, um, so it has provided me with a lot. It has taught me a lot and yeah, I mean, I’m still crazily. a little bit in love with that. So when you think back over the last 20 years, what are two or three of the keystone moments for you that were either hard or easier than you thought? Oh man, we’ve, um, there’ve been some big ones. So 2007, the flame return and see thing, that was really hard.

 

[ 00:16:36 ]Um, it was an era where I was new in the business; I was only a few years in at that point, and it wiped out a lot of businesses. There used to be mattress manufacturers. So what was it about that that that wiped out a lot of business? So the legislation essentially changed the way you can build your product. So you’ve been building your product the same way. For years, successfully now, all of a sudden, you’re forced to buy materials that are a lot more expensive. You’re forced to find a way to put those materials into your product that also you have to have feel a certain way at the end of the day. So, you know, being able to redesign everything in that way.

 

[ 00:17:14 ]And then you had to pay thousands of dollars to burn every single product you sell so that you could be certified and be allowed to sell it. So I had, for example, I’ve got 30 sets, right? I have to burn each one three times, and it costs about three to five thousand to burn it. And we got to send it to Michigan to do that because that’s the closest place. So 2007 was a massive, uh, financial burden on businesses. And that’s why I just, right, you had to change the process in which the manufacturing was taking. That could change the whole educating force. Yeah, yeah. So that, that was huge for our industry, and that eliminated so many aspects of that. Do you think that were actually helpful to consumers?

 

[ 00:18:00 ]No, not one. Wow. It made your products more expensive, uh, to build. So that made the quality of the product go down, because if you are a big guy, you’re a Tempe, Sealy, whatever, you couldn’t afford to just take all that on, right? And so you had to make your product try to cost about the same amount. Even though you had to add these more expensive materials and all of the expense that comes with the burning. Right. So in doing that, mattresses became one-sided, right? That’s it. That’s what did it. At the end of the day, that’s why you have one-sided products that don’t last, because we had to find a way. And so they said, well, if we just eliminate like 40 of the raw materials, that would do it.

 

[ 00:18:42 ]And so now, box springs are foundations. They don’t have steel in them, and now mattresses can’t be flipped. But hey, bonus for you, the consumer, you don’t have to flip it anymore. It’s that new technology, right? Yes, absolutely. Don’t worry about that part. We’ll still be here. We’ll sell you another one. Yes. So we intentionally didn’t cheapen our product, and so that was really hard. Yeah, cause that’s the shock system for the mattress, right? So if you have an inner spring and you put that on a wood foundation, your inner spring does all of the work; all of that tension from those coils is released into those stronger box spring coils. So like, go back to your physics class, right? That potential and kinetic energy, that’s how that works.

 

[ 00:19:26 ]So if you take that shock system away, you’re reducing the lifespan of your mattress; you’re changing the feel of it. It’s like buying a new car and Putting old tires on it, it’ll still get you from A to B, but your mileage changes. Right? And your comfort? Absolutely. So that’s that. Cheapened our industry; it cheapened the quality of products. It made it more difficult for manufacturer little manufacturers to compete with big manufacturers. And that was a huge turning point in our industry. That was the introduction of dangerous chemicals into your product. It was, I mean, that was a huge downfall for consumers. Absolutely. Yeah. What do you think as far as the industry over the next year? Is it status quo for the industry, or do you think there’s other things that are going to happen?

 

[ 00:20:11 ]or are happening in your industry that so I guess there are other things that we are dealing with now. So sort of surviving that COVID, which was no problem whatsoever. Yeah, it was fine. I tried to lobby staying open, you know, because mattresses are, that’s a requirement, right? It’s an essential item. I thought I was essential. As it turns out, I’m not essential. We still can’t levitate while we think right now. You know, I think it’s essential that nobody else agreed with me, but yeah. So in that, and having supply chain issues and all of the legislation that came with anti-dumping got reversed in the last administration, like those are. the sorts of things we’re dealing with. And so what that bred over the last few years, for example, there’s over 200 online-only mattress companies.

 

[ 00:21:05 ]Sure, online-only. You can’t walk into a store and try their products. Maybe they vacuum seal it in the smallest box as possible. Yeah. And hopefully it fluffs itself up when you unroll it. Right? So over 200, right? Ask me how many manufacturers build those. Two, four. Four. Oh wow, four. That’s close. And one of them makes over 70 of those products. Wow. But you know, you can spend your money at lots of different places, so lots of marketing. And there’s endless names. Yes, endless names. And so that was a huge impact on our business that people started relying on, you know? Yeah, I can order a mattress I’ve never tried or seen in person and have it shipped to my home. And generally people keep them. Right?

 

[ 00:21:53 ]And a lot of people don’t learn the lesson that, well, that bed in a box place was awful. Let’s try a different bed in a box place. So, you know, I think the drive of this generation of consumers for convenience, yes, has destroyed good manufacturers. You bet! And that’s probably a trend that we will just see continue. I hope not. I hope it’s just the reverse. Yeah, I hope not. My generation is trying to go back to, I don’t know, the 1900s or something. like we’re baking bread and raising chickens. So maybe it’ll all come full circle. I hope so. Yeah, that would be good. That would be great. That would be great to be self-reliant. But we, I think we really need legislation that cuts out foreign entities from taking over this market.

 

[ 00:22:43 ]I think we need to support small manufacturers. We need to support anyone that’s building a product at all in the United States. Sure, because it’s so hard to do that. And we really need to rely on ourselves more. And I just echo that more and more every day. And I think, you know, consumers need to be more savvy about how they’re spending their money and how they’re. consuming in general. Right? One of my favorite things is the plastic straw debate. Yeah, we are very concerned about plastic straws. Like, I had the number of paper straws that have just gotten soggy in my cup. Those aren’t straws. Not that those don’t actually require more energy than the plastic straws, but that’s another podcast, right? We are very concerned about plastic straws.

 

[ 00:23:33 ]Let’s not talk about the amount of fossil fuels needed to run electric cars either. Let’s just ignore that fact. We probably shouldn’t get into the EV conversation with me because you’re not prepared. We are so busy fighting this thing that the media. has told us is a problem, but we are not paying attention to the thousands and thousands and thousands of units annually that are being imported that are still petroleum-based products, that are still plastic products, like foam mattresses that are being dumped here, that people keep for three to five years on average, and then they end up in our landfill. And some states are paying recycling fees and recycling lobbyists, but there aren’t facilities to recycle them. And there are federal regulations about what can happen to a product like that that’s been in your home longer than 45 days.

 

[ 00:24:22 ]So at that point, they’re worried about communicable diseases, bed bugs, things like that. And so, like the ability to do something with those products in a donation capacity has gotten extremely limited. And in fact, if we were gonna donate, we would have to recover it and heat treat it. And we don’t have the capacity to do that. So they just end up in landfills. Wow. But you know, plastic straws are a problem. Yeah, look over here. Nothing like a king mattress. So what do you see happening in the next five years in your industry then? Well, it’ll be interesting. I think what happens in November is important. You know, election years are always weird for anyone in sales, but I think we can go one of two ways and I am concerned that we will stay where we are.

 

[ 00:25:09 ]Yeah. For my industry, there has been, in my lifetime, one president who has fought for our industry. And you know, I will elect him again in Sure. Absolutely. Because at the end of the day, it’s not about whether you like him or you like; it’s not about that. It’s for my direct impact on my business, for direct impact on my Sure. One of them supports US manufacturers and one of them doesn’t. One of them enables us to sort of level the playing field; one of them doesn’t. And if I can’t build something for, you know, half of what the retail price is of something that has been shipped. here overseas and like do the math on that landed cost yep

 

[ 00:25:56 ]Something’s wrong And businesses like mine won’t survive And it won’t just be ours It’ll be the cabinet industry Oh sure It’s the furniture industry It goes on and on and on and on and on And everyone who used to build something But meanwhile the consumer is the one suffering at their own hands Yeah unknowingly At their own so we’re worried about plastic straws Exactly I love that So you know I hope that there is a reversal of the policies that were reversed a few years ago And we start working toward rebuilding manufacturing in America made in the USA Made in the USA, that means something by the way, not just the label you paid for. It wasn’t just assembled here.

 

[ 00:26:38 ]But the fact that it really was made here because my products have always been made in, but more importantly than that, they are made of products that are made in Indiana and in surrounding states. Gotcha! We don’t leave the U. S. for anything. I don’t have to. How many employees do you have? 10? 10. Yeah, we’re small. You guys do a lot of work with only 10 people. We’ve got two stores, so we don’t require a lot of salespeople. We have, like I said, our staff that builds them also delivers them. Shocked! That is awesome. They are literally hand-built. We have a couple of guys who build every single product. It is built exactly to your specifications. These are not mass assembly lines; these are sewing machines.

 

[ 00:27:22 ]And you know a guy sitting at a machine building each component of your product by hand. It doesn’t take that long to do. On average, it probably takes about an hour to build a. But yeah, it’s important that we do it the right way, and it doesn’t require a lot of us to do it. Sure. So let’s dive into some differentiators. Yeah, sure. Yeah, so tell us how you’re different than a Tempur-Pedic and a box mattress. I mean, I know those are two different animals, but take us through that. Yeah, outside. Of what I’ve already said, right? The fact that you can flip it, the fact that everything is made here in the U. S the fact that we’re going to make it for you.

 

[ 00:27:55 ]So, if you need a slightly off size or a different shape or, you know, something custom for an antique bed, we can do all of those things. If you have sensitivities, allergies, health concerns, we can work really well with that in a way that just your average mattress store lineup won’t be able to help. You know, I think that’s big. I also think the fact that our factory or our staff is factory trained, right? So, you’re not talking to a salesperson who got a spec sheet and a kickback and this. is what we’re doing. And showed up from the mall the day before. Yes. Yeah. So our staff has to go through the process. You have to train in the factory; you have to build a set because, you know, there’s only one way you’re going to know, and that’s to experience it.

 

[ 00:28:45 ]So we want them to go through our process so they know exactly what we do and why we do it, and that’s what allows them to sell it. And my staff is not commissioned. They sell based on what you need, not based on what they need. Period. If you need a starter set for a kid’s room, that’s what they’re going to sell you. If you need a master bedroom set that you don’t want to replace for 20 years. then that’s what they will sell you. So their cash isn’t dependent on you, and I think that’s really important to have staff that have the goal of the consumer, not the goal of, you know, their own paycheck. So we do that differently as well. Everything we do about the product.

 

[ 00:29:25 ]So the fact that each layer is individually attached. Nobody does that, but we do that because. So why do you do that, and why do others not do that? Others don’t do it because, one, staples are expensive. That’s just another layer of expense that goes into the product. It costs a lot more time to do it. But if you don’t do it and that mattress is ever stored on its side or if it’s on an adjustable bed base or something, then all that foam kind of starts wrinkling and pushing together. It won’t be a body impression, so it won’t be covered by your warranty, but it will make you uncomfortable. We individually attached every single layer because that’s the best way to keep it in like-new condition for the longest.

 

[ 00:30:07 ]So everything we do makes sure that you keep it for a long time, just like having box springs. We put box springs in that set because that is the difference between having it a few years and having it over a So it’s all those things that we do that you can’t see that have led to the reputation that we’ve had for so long is the reason people keep coming back because they don’t have to worry about the quality of the product. All they have to worry about is finding the one that they like. Right? Nice! And so what are those typical options when they come in? What are they? How would you size someone’s and take them through your store and show them the options that they can consider?

 

[ 00:30:44 ]It does come down to how you sleep. That’s important. You know, if you’re a stomach sleeper versus a side sleeper versus a back sleeper. If you are having a medical issue, rotator cuff issue, or acid reflux, or you require a CPAP machine at night or something, those health aspects are part of our conversation as well. How often you move in the middle of the night? If you’re someone who moves a lot or gets up a lot and you sleep with a partner who doesn’t want to feel that motion, or if you are a shift worker, that can change what we might present to you. If you’ve had a bad experience with a product, not ours necessarily, but any product, we want to have an idea of why that is and what we can do to make sure that doesn’t continue to persist in the.

 

[ 00:31:36 ]We’ll have a conversation about the bed you’re going to put it on, whether it’s a metal bed frame or a bed you’ve had in your family for many years. I want to make sure. that the foundation of where our product sits is going to be adequate as well. So there’s that. We have a conversation about maintenance. Some people, you know, I had a sale to an 89-year-old woman the other day who’s not going to flip that mattress but is excited about the fact that we offer a service where we will come to your home and we will flip it for you, so that you can still have the product you want, you can still have the quality that you desire, and we will take care of the maintenance for it.

 

[ 00:32:13 ]So what is the life expectancy? Does it vary by which set I purchase? It does vary by product and by usage. So the set that is entry level for kids. is not going to last quite as long, or the set that you put in your guest room may not be the quality, but it might last a long time because it gets very little use. So it does vary. But on average, I would say 10 years is a good reevaluation point. Many of our sets considerably outlast that. I talk to people on a daily basis who’ve had a set of ours in their bedroom for 30 years. It’s finally time to replace it. Yeah, that happens way more than it should. It’s not the best business model, I’m gonna be honest.

 

[ 00:32:51 ]But the end of the day, we have to take into consideration what your usage is gonna be, what your expectations are gonna be of it. But generally we would say at 10 years we need to think about it. Still good, still meet your nothing’s changed, great, keep it. They don’t have expiration dates. They’re not going to self-destruct at any point. You can keep it as long as it still meets the But at 10 years, your body has changed; your lifestyle may have changed. So that’s a good time to kind of think about it. I like that though. But I mean, I know you feel like you’re giving up by not selling it at 10. Another one. But it would be fascinating to know how many of your clients that go beyond 10 refer.

 

[ 00:33:35 ]Yeah, right, just in that continual referral loop. Because I know if my mattress lasts that long, I’m telling somebody right. Yeah, well, that’s what we want people to do. Please tell your neighbors, tell your friends, bring them in with you. When somebody asks, remember our So we have, I mean, I would say the majority of our business is referral. Either existing customers or word of… Yeah, I’m going to switch gears a little bit. Yeah, go for it. How about you personally? So tell us about you. What do you want to know? Married? Children? You said married. Whatever you want to share. Whatever. Married with children. What do you enjoy doing outside of work? That’s kind of it. Yeah, so That’s also a TV show. It is; it was a good one.

 

[ 00:34:11 ]I watched that show. I’m grateful. I don’t sell shoes, I guess. That’s right. Yeah, so I am, I have been married for, oh let me think about this, since 2008. We’ll do that. There you go. Just about the time the industry is changing. And to a wonderful, incredibly intelligent man who, well done! Yes, he’s excellent. I’m very grateful to have him. He is now in business development, and he’s also in city council, and he is on a million boards and volunteer organizations. And he’s really smart and loves to give of himself. So yeah, I’m incredibly blessed with him. And then we have two kids. We have a son who is nine and is in third grade, and we have a daughter who just turned five and is finishing. pre K this year.

 

[ 00:35:13 ]Awesome! And what do you like to do in your spare time? Oh man, spare time, I know you get a little. That’s a concept. There’s not a lot of it. Other than transportation, I suspect is involved in. That’s true. I’m doing a lot of chauffeuring at this point. I think that, you know, our spare time, right, is just really time that we want to spend with the friends we don’t get to see enough, the family we don’t get to see enough. We are there are different categories of people, and we are volunteer people. My next door neighbors are project people, right? They’re always doing a new project, he’s building something, get some concept, and then. like actually will All of a sudden there’s a new depth of backyard right there.

 

[ 00:35:57 ]Manifested it happens yes. We are not those people. We are hire people for projects, people because we are not gifted in that way but we are volunteer people. So we don’t know how to say no. Yeah, so whenever there is an event, a group, a committee, a sign up for, we are the people who sign up. We can’t help ourselves. Has it always been that way? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Is that kind of a family thing as well? Like your grandfather and your dad? And I don’t think so. Did they do that or no? I don’t think so. That’s a uniquely long time. I actually think that’s something I maybe inherited. from my husband because he was always, you know, as soon as someone finds out that you’re young and you’re willing to, first of all, they’re all over it.

 

[ 00:36:43 ]They tap you for everything. And I used to give him a hard time about it, and then I just kind of started joining him. And so now we do that. And so there’s always an opportunity to jump in at church or at school or, you know, a meal train for a, or a committee that started and they need more members or. So we do a lot of that. Once they find out that you truly care and that you can do it, they’re all over you. Yeah. And we get a lot out of that too. That serves a need for us to serve others. So yes, we do a lot of volunteering. and a lot of you know sign up for committees and just extra things. We’re very involved from a city level in Carmel.

 

[ 00:37:23 ]And so if there’s anything we can volunteer for, we tend to do that. It’s very active, and we have been very involved for a long time. And so yeah, so we tend to busy ourselves with those sorts of But if we can totally escape, that’s what I was going to If there’s nothing else going on, we’re probably camping. Camping. Camp. Okay. Tent or camper? No. Yeah. With a mattress. My husband and my children. You say camp, but it’s more like glamping. Yes. How about I will stay in an RV? My husband and my kids will sleep in a With AC. I still have to do. that With AC Okay Yeah And we have two big dogs. We have two labs that, you know, bring their, you know, magical Chevy for everywhere they go.

 

[ 00:38:12 ]They come with me to work every day. So there are dogs at the If you dog people stop by, they love to have friends come visit. Yeah. So we’re with the dogs, or with the kids, or you know, if we just have time, we’re going to go find a park and hike and kayak and do those kinds of things. We love that. So what’s one of your favorites that comes to mind? That a park? The place you’ve been to? Oh, well, that’s tough. Like Turkey Run, Spring Mill, McCormick Creek. We like McCormick’s Creek. Chain of Lakes is great. We did okay. So We did family camp this summer. Okay, what’s this? Something my husband dragged me to because it sounded awful.

 

[ 00:38:54 ]It was a it’s a Spring Hill camp, which a lot of people around here send their kids to in the summers, and they did a family version. And so, it was everything you think of for summer camp. It just included the families. Okay. And it was awesome! I bet you bummed here. Yeah, it was, you know, zip lining and you jumping off these diving boards, and archery and games and crafts and all this stuff you associate, you know, the campfires with s’mores at night. It was wonderful. And that is Spring Hill, in Seymour, Indiana, and that facility. is amazing. It’s beautiful out there. It’s been really, really well preserved. The, I’m gonna get this wrong, the Rust family maybe? He just ran for office, not that large. Tried to run for…

 

[ 00:39:47 ]Anyway, his family, I guess, originally kind of owned this place. And so it has become this, like, Christian camp for kids. And they had a family version that was a lot of fun. So that was, that was cool. But like, just to go to a park for a day, like flowing well and caramel is really cool. That’s a great place to hang out. And then Meadowlark is really neat too. But like, my kids like to fish. I don’t wanna fish. I’ll watch you fish. But they watch you fish. So your husband. Does he like to fish? He loves to fish. I don’t like to touch fish. I really don’t want to touch worms either. So, but I will sit there and I will watch. Yeah, so you know we like to be outside.

 

[ 00:40:31 ]We like to enjoy all the that Indiana has to That’s awesome. So the most important part of our podcast, how do people find you? Oh, well, what’s the best way for them to find you? The best way is to stop into a store, right? So, whether you’re in Kokomo or whether you’re in Carmel, come see us in right off 931 or in the Indiana Design Center, which is right in the heart of Carmel, Rangeline and Main right there. The parking there is great. They actually, it’s a surface lot. You can actually find a spot to park. It’s in a driving circle. Not just that, but the well-kept secret is we have a parking garage. It’s under the building. What? Oh, I didn’t know that either. And it’s also open all the time. And it’s also free parking because it’s Carmel. So there is garage parking there. So don’t sweat the parking star signs, right? Yes, yes. If you’re coming to something in Carmel in the evening and you’re worried about parking, the IDC is the best place to. Whether it’s underground or surface lot, there’s always parking there. So it’s a great place to know about. But stop in there and see us, or you can find us on Facebook or Instagram. or generally, what are your hours?

 

[ 00:41:44 ]Appreciate it.