[ 00:00:12 ]I’m Adam Hayes, joined to my left by my co-host, Bob Payden. Good morning. BobPayden. com. And across the table from us today is Zach Connor with Connor Insurance. Well, thanks for having me. Appreciate it. Yeah. Thanks for coming in. Yeah. So tell us about what you do.

 

[ 00:00:27 ] Tell us about Connor Insurance a little bit. Sure. Our business has been around since 1949.

 

[ 00:00:33 ] Started by my grandfather, Henry Clay Connor Jr. He was a World War II veteran missing in action in the Philippine jungles for 34 months. Amazing story on its own that we can get into or not. But then, in 2015, myself and five of my cousins bought the business from our dads and have since tripled the business and focus on property, liability, work comp, health benefits for businesses, and then personal lines insurance. So it’s about a third, a third, a third. I have about 52, 53 employees now.

 

[ 00:01:08 ] When I started, we had 26 employees or so.

 

[ 00:01:13 ] And, yeah, we’re located at Keystone and the Crossing, a third-generation family-owned insurance firm that kind of meets all your needs. Sweet. Awesome.

 

[ 00:01:21 ] Well, let’s hear some of that story because that’s, you know, get into the human side of, you know, businesses for a minute here. So let’s talk about your grandfather and being, you know, 34 months, right? Correct. So let’s talk about that. What happened?

 

[ 00:01:35 ] So he was stationed at Clark Airfield, Clark Base Airfield, which was in Luzon, the Philippines jungle, their area. And to him, he was, I think, out there in June of 1941. 1941 is when he got out there, maybe July or August. Was out there for a couple months, obviously, before Pearl Harbor. Was golfing, enjoying the time out there. Hey, we’re out here in the Pacific. This is not Germany. Hitler was a big thing, right? And then, obviously, Pearl Harbor happened. And when that happened, they also bombed Clark Airfield at the same time. A lot of people don’t know. So when that happened, he had to make a decision. Do I basically stay with my platoon and shrink the numbers? Because that’s what everyone was basically doing. Hey, we have 100,000 people here. We’re going to surrender to the Japanese because they’re coming in with massive force. MacArthur laughed. That’s when he promised, ‘I will be back.’ So they had to make a decision on what to do. And he was like, ‘I don’t trust the Japanese, just knowing what they were doing in China in 1936 to 1940 and so.’

 

[ 00:02:40 ] So he… Someone who was a Duke graduate, a cheerleader at Duke, about 24 years old, kind of made the decision. And from New Jersey, too. So a city boy, no camping experience, no Boy Scout, you know. He basically said, ‘Well, I’m going to go out in the jungles. And who wants to join me?’ Wow. And these commanding officers said, ‘You have a one in a million chance of survival there.’ You know, you’re first off, you’re going to get a disease because you’re white man. So you’re going to get some hay fever or whatever. If that doesn’t kill you, then the boar will kill you. Or the snakes. The snakes, right? Those will kill you. And if that doesn’t kill you, then the traps that people have set for those animals will kill you because those are hidden. You can’t see them. And if that doesn’t kill you, then the people will kill you because they’re in a civil war and they’re also cannibals. Um, so good other than that is fine. And he he took all that information in and basically still said, ‘Great, I’m still going.’ Um, Within a couple days, he had dysentery, malaria, was horribly injured and sick.

 

[ 00:03:43 ] And then in the story, there’s a book written about him called ‘Resolve.’ And it was written about, I think, 2013, 12 or so. Awesome book. Bob Welsh is the author. And this medicine woman comes down and basically takes care of him for maybe like a couple hours or a day, heals him up. He’s in and out, not really delirious, not knowing what’s going on. And then she leaves. And he’s like, ‘I’m better now.’ Okay, let’s keep going. And he kept going. He basically got a couple other guys to join him. Um, long story short, um, or short story, long story short, uh, He basically survived for 34 months by getting people to not fight each other, but to find off the Japanese. And in that time, he was basically scouting at locations, finding people. He had a radio, so he’d go, ‘Hey, there’s about 10 tanks here. There’s about 5,000 Japanese soldiers here. There’s all this kind of military. So he’d radio that in. Just like a scout, yeah.

 

[ 00:04:45 ] And I don’t know if that was doing anything. I think it was probably giving him a mission, giving him a job, keeping him active, making him useful in that sense. Um, and sure enough, 34 months later, he got out and, um, had the decision on what do I do now? Um, he worked at the bull of a watch company in New Jersey because the owner there, um, Mr. Bolivar basically said, loved hiring veterans. And he was like, I’m hiring all veterans. And he had no idea what to do. And he sat there basically for a year doing nothing. And he was like, I feel worthless. I need a job. And so basically he allowed him to take a test. He paid for him to take a test to find out your career. And it was a lawyer or insurance advisor.

 

[ 00:05:29 ] What are those two? During the war, he went blind for about a couple weeks. Then he got his healing back. But that affected him the rest of his life. You can never see straight. You can only see peripherals. So my dad’s got a great story, side story here. My dad’s got a good story. He said he was hitchhiking on the road when he was probably 15, 16 years old. And he sees his dad and his big Cadillac coming down the road. And he’s like, ‘Oh, hey, dad, come over here.’ And he just zooms right by him. And he’s like, ‘What the heck?’ Gets home an hour or two later, his dad’s in there eating dinner or whatever. Hey, where you been? I was on the side of the road hitchhiking. Didn’t you see me? He’s like, ‘What did you see?’ And he’s a homeless guy. He would look this way and drive sometimes just because I was like, ‘Oh my God. Wow.’ Different era. Right. Yeah. Different perspective. Yeah. Literally. Yeah. Yeah.

 

[ 00:06:20 ] Uh, so basically, he said, ‘Hey, I can’t read all that much. So I can’t be a lawyer. I’ll do an insurance advisor. They don’t read that much. Right? All those policies are written by lawyers and they’re 200 pages. But anyway, he did that and did it successfully.’ And while simultaneously running a successful business, he went across the country speaking about his story, became a Christian, and also talked about that he was heavily involved with CBMC and went throughout the country talking about that. So he was even on a show called This Is Your Life. Uh, which, um, did really well and and that was a really cool episode that’s on YouTube you can find it too um but yeah that’s kind of his story and it amazes me all the time because there’s a book written about it we went to the Philippines in 2019 in December me and my dad which was awesome because that was like an arnica for me right that was like oh this country is you can’t fathom I’ve heard about it this is the second country I was basically introduced to after the United States when I was you know six seven eight years old just knowing my grandfather’s story um and so we did like 16-hour

 

[ 00:07:25 ] days me and my dad looking at locations and meeting people and meeting directors like writers and stuff like potentially changing this into a movie sure and we were very sounds like one And then COVID happened. And so it’s been put on hold. And I think God’s got things in store that are bigger than what we know. So maybe in a couple of years or whatever it might be, it will turn into a movie or miniseries or something. But yeah, it was an awesome experience. I would not change it for the world.

 

[ 00:07:52 ] Wow. What a great story. That’s a cool story.

 

[ 00:07:55 ] How did the transition from New Jersey to Indiana happen? What’s that story?

 

[ 00:08:01 ] So my grandma was about 11 years younger than my grandfather. And he was basically babysitting her.

 

[ 00:08:12 ] And they were family friends. And he essentially was like, ‘Hey, basically introduced. Hey, you came back from the war. You should see Libby.

 

[ 00:08:21 ] And he’s like, what? She’s a kid. Like, no, she’s grown up and she’s older now.’ All right, okay, and they got introduced. And her family lived here, and that’s how they got introduced. Okay, came back to here, so yeah, his dad was a traveling salesman, all across the east coast. Um, out of his car, which would be an awesome movie in itself. Right. Just like, sure. You’re out on the road for months.

 

[ 00:08:44 ] And it’s like, ‘Hey, I’m back.’ Yeah.

 

[ 00:08:48 ] Right. So, so talk, talk about maybe the transition from, you know, grandfather to father to now, you guys— what was that like? Was it kind of planned? Was it not planned at all?

 

[ 00:08:58 ] Was I mean, so I can’t speak to what my grandparent, my dad, and my dad and uncles had. I know they went from basically one to three—um, in that sense—um, but when we bought the business in 2015, I was only working there for two years. Everyone else had been working there for probably 10 plus years. Okay. Um, and our CEO, Ben, my cousin, was our CEO already. He had been I think he took that position in 2012, 2011, maybe 2013. Um, so there’s already that push of the leadership. Right. So you have the leadership transition, but you don’t have the ownership.

 

[ 00:09:38 ] Correct.

 

[ 00:09:38 ] And if you’re ever in that position, it’s kind of difficult because it’s kind of like, ‘Hey, I want to do all these great changes and I got all these awesome plans and I want it.’ Well, I just want. In our budget, we have 26 employees. We don’t grow to 30 or 50. We want to stay where we’re at, um, and that’s understandable. That’s what they wanted to keep— the business, as they wanted to keep it at a certain amount for years and they did. And uh, they wrote had successful families, successful eyes, that’s good business. But knowing that we were buying a business from our dads with three people and we were having five, we had no choice but to grow the business because we had to pay them back. We couldn’t just keep it at the same amount and level. We had to continue to grow. And not just for growth’s sake, but like, hey, this is… We’re doing meaningful work. We like the work we’re doing. So let’s duplicate it and quadruple it and continue to replicate that for our clients. Nice.

 

[ 00:10:32 ] That’s awesome. So when you purchased the business, what did that feel like?

 

[ 00:10:38 ] Well, for me, it was weird because I had only been working there for two years. I knew it was something that I wanted—probably, just maybe— like after 10 years of working there. And again, people are like, ‘Hey, well, you’re privileged in that sense.’ Absolutely, you’re right; it was— it was definitely something that fell in our lap or from my laps at least. Um, but it was— it was basically the last 10 years of, ‘Okay, now I’ve got something to prove. Now it’s—um, don’t be that person, that nepotism.’ Don’t be the person that’s like, ‘oh, the keys were just handed to him,’ or he thinks he hit a triple and he started on third base already. Or he thinks he hit a triple, or hit a double, but he started on third base. That would be worse. And it’s like, you’ve got to make sure that that doesn’t become… the chatter. Right. Um, and that wasn’t just for me. I think, and they might not say this, but I, we can tell, like, the people who care the most, um, who have been there the most. And, and it’s, it’s just common sense.

 

[ 00:11:39 ] Like, if your name’s on the wall, you better put up or shut up. Like it’s going to be more meaningful for you. Um, so I think that’s been a good lesson to learn. It’s been really the driving force for our relationship to really mend and stay together as cousins, relatives, and partners is that, hey. We can basically just look at her like, ‘You’re not— this doesn’t really happen,’ but it’s like, ‘Hey, if you’re not bringing up your whole side of the bargain, it’s like, you’re going to get called out.’ Come on. Thanksgiving is going to be awkward then. Right, yeah. Come on, let’s go. Nice. So I think it’s kind of a friendly competition or maybe in the back of our minds, like, okay, we got to just always keep elevating. And we always, now it goes towards to all the employees too. It’s like, hey, we have a great culture. We’ve been named best places to work probably eight or nine times, which is great honor. Um, when we interview, we bring someone on. We got to make sure that they’re not bringing the bar of excellence lower. Like that’s got to be standards and high.

 

[ 00:12:41 ] And that’s why, when we do the interview process, it’s not just ownership that goes through it; it’s the account managers, it’s the people that are going to work on them. They’re also part of that, because I don’t have a good feeling for that person or that person’s a home run like I would love to have them on our team. Yeah, so I think a great interview question that we ask all people is, ‘Why would our team like working with you?’ And see what it says, because a lot of people go, ‘Oh, uh, hmm,’ ‘I’m nice,’ ‘I’m friendly so okay. Well, so people are nice and friendly right? Yeah, right. But why? That’s a revealing question.

 

[ 00:13:13 ] You can get an answer to Sure. So, I mean, in terms of the five of you, do you think you’ve done a good job of dividing and conquering and defining who does what?

 

[ 00:13:23 ] Yeah, I would say so. We have all unique talents that you would think, ‘Oh, family,’ you’re probably all similar. It’s like we’re pretty different. And I think that’s a good thing. There’s not two CEOs, there’s not three HRs. There’s not, like, that would be fair.

 

[ 00:13:41 ] There’s, they there’s one CEO, there’s one CEO, there’s one HR, there’s one, it there’s one business development, there’s one, like, they all have our own skills and we all compliment really well. And I think we respect the work that everyone is doing.

 

[ 00:13:56 ] It’s hard to put yourself in those person’s shoes. Like I can’t 100% relate to what our cousin, my cousin Annie, does on HR. Sure, but all I know is like, I’m glad I don’t have to do it, and thank God she’s doing it, and she’s doing a great job. And same with our you know, Todd and Ben and everybody else, Josh and Ryan. Um, it’s just something that we’re like—Okay, I know. I can’t do that. Keep doing it. You know, yeah. If you’re yeah. So I think we have a good trust there. Awesome. Yeah.

 

[ 00:14:27 ] So what one of the things I wanted to kind of dive into with you is, you know, you’re you’re working in small business and mid-sized business healthcare right? So it’s a it’s a big topic. It’s a high cost driver for organizations right now. And you’ve uh, you’re you’re really working to change things. And I want you to talk about that— your why. What are you doing specifically and why are you doing that?

 

[ 00:14:51 ] Yeah. Healthcare and health insurance.

 

[ 00:14:57 ] It is such a driver in conversations over the last 10 years since Obamacare has gone out that people at this standpoint, I have seen, they just throw their hands up and they’re going, ‘I don’t want to deal with this anymore.’ Absolutely. This is getting too frustrating. It’s too complex. And there’s just nothing I can do about it. And there’s a sense of defeat that we are seeing that I haven’t seen in a long, like, ever. And it’s.

 

[ 00:15:24 ] As a competitor, it’s frustrating because you see that and you’re like, no, like you should be able to find some solution. Like, right. Like, you, like, a plus B equals C.’ Like that’s what, like, let’s figure that out. And a lot of people just come down, like, it’s a 10% increase this year on our health benefits plan, but we’re lucky that it wasn’t 20. And that feels like a win to people. And that felt like a complete, utter shame in our sense.

 

[ 00:15:48 ] What other part of their business do they do that?

 

[ 00:15:51 ] Right. And again, typically we see this as their second or third largest expense after salaries and maybe office pays or manufacturing, whatever it might be. But yeah, so anyone who is looking, who’s got 50 employees or more, is a good rule of thumb on their health benefits plan. I mean, we have 26 and 27 employees on our plan, and we’re considered level-funded. And that’s really the mechanism, the environment, you know, getting into the weeds. I don’t want to get too much into it, but. You know, you’re fully insured, level-funded, self-funded. The fully insured, just think— your Anthem, Blue Cross, Blue Shield, United Health Care. They basically give you a package product and they say, ‘Here is your bundled of services.’ It makes it very convenient; it’s really easy. You take this ID card and you go to hospitals, and they accept it like that. Everyone’s happy. Your employees get their health plan paid for by you guys. And the healthcare companies love it because they know what this is. It’s predictable. It’s an easy solution.

 

[ 00:16:46 ] Fortunately, easy comes at a price. Every year you’re facing 10%, 15%, or 20% increases. And a reason for that, I think, most of the— not most, but a leading force— is those companies, the health insurance companies, don’t require a second opinion.

 

[ 00:17:03 ] Meaning you go to community and they say, ‘Hey, you got to get hip surgery. Here’s a guy. Here’s a specialist. Go see him. He’s fantastic.’ I golf with him all the time. I’m like, ‘What does that have to do with anything?’ Right.

 

[ 00:17:15 ] But then you just go. Instead of, hey, maybe I need a second opinion because I know that 40% of these are initial diagnoses are reversed and are wrong. So, if you know those stats, you should have your red flags up and kind of go, ‘hmm.’ Maybe I should just get a second opinion. What’s it going to hurt me? Nothing. So, but they don’t really want to do that because they know, ‘hey, if you don’t get a second opinion, you just get the surgery.’

 

[ 00:17:41 ] Well, the system really isn’t set up to get a second opinion. No. Right. There’s even a social pressure, the hassle, because.

 

[ 00:17:50 ] You have a system better than I do, but the way I understand it is you go to your GP and you say, ‘I got my hip hurts,’ and he refers you to a specialist. You go see the specialist and he says you need a new hip. Right. And that’s just kind of the way it is. He’s a doctor, right? Right. As an individual, knowing that you should probably get a second opinion. Could feel a little bit overwhelming. Then you’ve got to get a hold of your GP and say, ‘Who should I get a second opinion with?’ Well, I already gave you the option. The option is the option. If he says get a hip replacement, get your hip replaced.

 

[ 00:18:17 ] Well, and that’s the issue, right? Where doctors are, and nurses, but it’s more an issue of the doctors—among the most trusted industry in the world.

 

[ 00:18:30 ] So, if you have that trust already, and someone tells you, why would I need to get a second opinion? This guy— who was a doctor or gal— told me I needed this surgery. And I definitely see that in senior citizens, right?

 

[ 00:18:41 ] Really? I’ll use my in-laws. The doctor says anything. Or prescription, even.

 

[ 00:18:47 ] Let’s not even go surgery. Let’s go prescription. Hey, you have high cholesterol, Bob. You’re at 205. Here’s a stat. Here’s a stat. Well, what if I just reduce my eggs? Or if I did this, it’s two of five, not really that high. It’s 200 is the number. And I need to know you need a stab. Okay.

 

[ 00:19:01 ] Offset with exercise. No, let’s just go ahead and take this. That’s hard.

 

[ 00:19:06 ] So anyway, there is just a lot of mismanagement, overly charges, and fraud, really, is what I would say, in the system itself. It’s not designed for the benefit of the employee. or the consumer. It’s for the benefit of the health insurance companies, the healthcare companies, the hospitals, not really the doctors. Actually, if you look at our state, specifically Indiana, we pay doctors 47th most compared to other states. But we are the fourth highest most when it comes to inpatient, outpatient facilities. So where’s that money going? That’s going to administrators.

 

[ 00:19:49 ] And building new projects.

 

[ 00:19:52 ] And it’s not the rural hospitals either. I don’t want to pick on them. It’s not the ones out there. It’s the big five that we all know around the state. And you see their facilities everywhere.

 

[ 00:20:03 ] We just fixed a good example this last week because, in our level-funded plan, now we have access to data and that’s the benefit of it, right? When you’re fully insured, going back to my initial thought, when you’re fully insured, you get this package bundle and you don’t get your claims data, which is absolutely insane. Like here, you don’t get to make educated decisions. But just trust us. Well, that’s ridiculous. So, if I pay a million dollars, let’s just say, for my health benefits plan as a company, and we have really only $600,000 in claim, I should get that money back, right? Well, you do in level fund or self-funded. Fully insured, it’s tough.

 

[ 00:20:39 ] Well, I’ll get a 40% decrease, right? No, you don’t get decreases. You might stay flat. It might be 0%. That’s great. Kind of. It feels like a win. Oh, 0% increase. Fantastic. Well, yeah, it should have been overpaid by 40%. Right. That should be a 35%. Right. So the beauty of level-funded and self-funded is it’s a simple, simple message. You get access to claims data. You get to see where you can now make strategies and decisions, and educated decisions, based off that data. So, hey, if I get my data back and I say, ‘Looks like we’re spending half a million dollars— or 50% of our costs— is on pharmaceuticals.’ What can I do about that? Who’s that? Who does that affect? Does it affect a hundred employees or does it affect three? And what are those drugs? Can I get that? Is it Stelara, which is costing $80,000? Is it Humira, which is costing $80,000 a year? Is it a cancer? What is the drug? And I don’t need to see the specific employee, but I need to see what costs are. So I can make a decision to go, oh, well, if we’re sourcing this drug over here through Anthem for $80,000, maybe I can outsource it over here for $20,000 or $15,000, which happens all the time.

 

[ 00:21:50 ] So just the knowledge of data. Yes. So that alone is the starting point. And a lot of people think, oh, if I go fully insured and self-funded, it’ll solve all my problems and I’ll be happy. Or a lot of people either reverse, right? I’ve had been self-funded before and it was a total disaster.

 

[ 00:22:07 ] Not all self-funded plans are created equally, just like a car. If you buy a $300,000 Bentley, you’re riding in luxury. It’s great. It’s nice. No road noise. You got an umbrella in your door handle too. Everything is leather. It’s hand-stitched. It’s fantastic. You buy a $30,000 Honda. You’re getting from A to B and it’s great. And, but there’s no, there’s row noise. Your window might not work all the time. You got, you know, upholstery seat, you know what you’re doing, right? So in healthcare, it’s the reverse where you’ve got. These physicians that might charge a surgery for eighty thousand dollars, um, and you’re gonna think, ‘Oh well, that’s because it’s a really good surgery.’ Well, I can get the same surgery for twenty thousand dollars, and the quality of healthcare actually from that doctor is higher. Because you’re not doing readmissions, complications, surgeries number one, two, three, rehab, all these things.

 

[ 00:23:01 ] Which is another set of data that’s really not available to the consumer. We have no idea. We’ve got a Dr. Johnson down the road. He’s been awesome for blah, blah, blah.

 

[ 00:23:11 ] You have no basis for that other than what you, but hospitals have this data they pay 30, 40, 50, 000 a year to have this access to the data specifically for hosp for doctors—uh, quality scores— which is reported by their own facility and if you report it incorrectly it’s a fraud and you go to jail. So it’s CMS data. It’s millions of documents that a company that we have access to looks at and basically does the money ball approach. Hey, I’m going to assign you a number based off, like I said, mortality, complications, remissions, patient safety. And you can say, ‘Hey, I was.’ You know, recommended this doctor by my GP and I came back and that guy’s 18 out of 100 versus, hey, if you go to these three doctors that are 90, 95, 97— maybe the company will incentivize you by going to the steering you to go to those, maybe lowering your deductible, paying your whole deductible like that would be a huge incentive because I know if I go to this doctor, my employee is going to have higher quality, it’s going to be a lower cost, it’s going to cost me a lot less and they’re going to have a higher, better uh outcome.

 

[ 00:24:17 ] Yeah, and their retention for that employee has just tripled, like right there in law, sick days, and loss exactly right.

 

[ 00:24:27 ] Yeah, but what would be the kind of the minimum dip your toe from the I’ll call it the gold platter plan to what you call level funding, level funding. So what’s the first step that somebody could take in that? What’s that look like? Is it like 90/ 10 or is it like you know some other, I don’t you know what’s that step look like for someone? So literally, Yeah.

 

[ 00:24:47 ] Like I said, we’re our smallest employer with 26 employees on our plan. We’re level funded, level funded. The difference between that and self-funded really at the end of the day is just the financial mechanism.

 

[ 00:24:58 ] So it’s similar to fully insured, where you get, hey, I pay monthly premiums and I know my balance. And then at the end of the year, then we true up. And if we owe more, then we write a check. If we get money back, we write it. Whereas for self-funded, it’s… Every month could look different depending on the claims for that month. Hey, I had $13,000 of claims. Great, we’re paying $13,000. Oh, I had $50,000 of claims a month. Okay, now it’s going up. But really, the entry to… Or the barrier to injury, or maybe there shouldn’t be a barrier. It’s just be the entry level for those. Really, if you have, I would recommend 25, 30 employees on your health plan. You should at least start looking at it. You should have a person coming to you and go, ‘Look, here is a level-funded option.’

 

[ 00:25:42 ] And it’s horrible or it’s fantastic. Like at least no. And here’s the parameters on it. Here’s what we can do. The easiest thing, the lowest-hanging fruit, is pharmacy costs. That is a super easy level or lever to pull that in the level-funded option where you can go, ‘Look, I can put this in place and really affect three employees.’ We had a client, they were paying a million dollars of drug costs and it was three employees.

 

[ 00:26:10 ] And they had 600 employees on their plan. So you’re not affecting all 600 employees when you do a mechanism like this. You are affecting three. And those three then get their hands held throughout the whole process. They actually now have their medication shipped to them. So it’s actually an easier process. And their costs, too, have gone a lot lower. From that. So it’s a win, win, win.

 

[ 00:26:32 ] So in a nutshell, counter insurance guides and helps people get through that process. Absolutely. I love it. Yeah.

 

[ 00:26:38 ] And then another easy one, like I mentioned, is the doctor score. That’s when you can implement really in a fully insured plan. But only with the data. Right.

 

[ 00:26:47 ] Right.

 

[ 00:26:47 ] Yes. I know. Right. So I guess my point in saying that is if you’re on, you know, one of the big three plans, you don’t have access to that data necessarily. And you might not know to educate yourself on it. Right.

 

[ 00:27:02 ] Your GP refers you into somebody. You have no idea what their score is. Right. And you’re probably not thinking about it. You’re probably thinking about the conversation you’re going to have with your significant other if they advised you of something significant. Right.

 

[ 00:27:13 ] Well, and again, it’s.

 

[ 00:27:16 ] literally again it’s just arming our employees with data right that’s all we can do yeah and at the end of the day is their body and they it’s their choice so they can do their decision and they say well i have this hip surgery done from this doctor last year and i get my other hip and i trust my Okay, fine. You can go. Your deductible is just not paid for. If you go to this doctor, your deductible will be paid for. But if you want to go here, that’s fine.

 

[ 00:27:39 ] In fully insured plans, we are having a tool that’s got capabilities to be embedded in certain fully insured plans. So it’s not everyone. All carriers are different. Um, but you can start to at least have that conversation and go, ‘Hey, here’s a tool that we are putting in. There’s a navigational tool for employers, so it it’s a beautiful tool again. Like it’s not something that’s only for self-funded plans. A couple years ago it was, but now again they’re starting to do it for full insurance. Same with like Wellbridge Surgical. Yeah, that’s what I was going to mention. They were only self-funded plans, but now I believe they accept United Healthcare. They might be accepting Anthem here soon. That’s correct. Um, they’re probably hoping that you don’t get that. Um, I get to meet one of the founders.

 

[ 00:28:21 ] They’re fantastic. Talk through their process. That was fascinating. I’ll skip all that.

 

[ 00:28:25 ] Yeah. Yeah. Not about them.

 

[ 00:28:29 ] So talk about the whole initiative of, you know, it’s just business and, you know, the film and how that developed and where you see that going.

 

[ 00:28:36 ] So, yeah. What you’re talking about, yeah. The documentary we came out with is it’s not personal— it’s just business or, but it’s really just it’s just healthcare. So it’s got crossed out. So yeah, it’s not personal; it’s just healthcare. It came out not too long ago, about a couple months ago. And this project basically is the ethos of our company and probably 50 other companies, broker, small broker, similar sized companies across the country. Nice. We’re in a mastermind group. And we kind of pulled funds together, essentially, and said, ‘Hey, this is something we’ve been talking about. Like, let’s make it into a 68-minute documentary.’

 

[ 00:29:16 ] and it’s really well done. uh the guy i think it’s the guy’s first film maybe uh but it does really good job um and it’s basically just walking through the stories of people um getting hosed um there’s there’s an individual i’m spanking spacing his name like wendell porter um he is a signo whistleblower and he’s in the film and he does a fantastic job at just laying it out and basically exposing what health insurance companies are doing. and, you know, it’s a great film. i will preface it with you will leave annoyed and frustrated.

 

[ 00:30:00 ] Are advisors out there that are doing something? Yeah, and that’s kind of our call to action is like: we have to wake up and do something. As employers, we cannot just stand on the sidelines and go. That’s not my problem. Down the road, or go, hopefully, government fixes this. And we’ll just— it’s like you gotta be involved. I mean, there’s a lot in the film highlights this. There’s a lot of um, Chris Deacon, a lawyer, highlights in the film where there’s a couple lawsuits coming down the pipe right now. And there was another one that just was filed. I forget who filed. That was another insurance company, I think. But J &J, Johnson & Johnson, had an employee that sued them for fiduciary responsibility. Said, ‘Hey, you have not lived up to your fiduciary responsibility in managing our health benefits plan, similar to a 401(k) plan. Because they are a fiduciary. They’re going, ‘We’re not the fiduciary.’ That goes to Cigna. They’re the fiduciary. Nope, we’re not a fiduciary. So no one is claiming fiduciary responsibility, even though this is their second largest expense. And they’re just getting increase after increase.

 

[ 00:31:01 ] And now the employees are finally going.

 

[ 00:31:02 ] That’s an important case because it will set precedence for the law. Yes.

 

[ 00:31:06 ] Yeah. Yeah. It is something we are keeping our eye out. A lot of people are, we’re hoping that gets resolved to that. Sure. Called for that.

 

[ 00:31:13 ] So Zach, how would people come about watching this video? Where would they find? Yeah.

 

[ 00:31:17 ] So there is on our website, www. connorins. com. There is a tab. If you look out, I think events, and then there’s literally just a tab that says it’s not personal. It’s just healthcare. And then you can watch it for free. I think all you need to do is your name and email, and that will be sent. Perfect.

 

[ 00:31:35 ] So where do you see the industry going right now, specifically to health care insurance or health insurance?

 

[ 00:31:44 ] So it’s hard to.

 

[ 00:31:47 ] Well, so there’s two perspectives, I guess. There’s one from ours where it’s hopeful because. we’re looking at the work we’re doing and we got our blinders on and we’re seeing everything that’s going on. Right. And we’re like, ‘Oh, we’re making a difference. We’re doing a lot of great stuff. Like our clients are having great results. We have a several clients from 2012 has had a negative 1% trend for a 1200 life group, which is insane.’ That saved them millions and millions. Almost probably about a hundred million at this point. Right. Wow. And so we’re like, ‘Hey, everything is great. This is going well.’ And then you got the things like I talked about where you’re like, ‘I don’t think many people know that.’ And that’s the disheartening aspect. And the point of that film is hopefully to get more of the word out, not to scare people, but to get people to do actionable items to say, ‘Hey, I got a, like, this is a problem.’ Yeah, we can’t make change unless we have awareness.

 

[ 00:32:40 ] It’s raising awareness to make change.

 

[ 00:32:42 ] And then, you know, the pessimists in me, though, I’m just like, well, we have a $36 trillion in debt, and we still kick that one in. down the road. So who’s going to fix this? So who’s going to fix that? Like, there’s a lot of issues. I mean, there’s homeless populations, there’s, there’s, uh, perpetual, you know, violence in Baltimore and all that. It’s like, okay, well for the generational. And it’s like, what is going on? Like, we’re not doing anything, really. It’s like, so is anyone going to have like, I mean, it’s a hard issue. It’s a really, really tough thing. But you’ve got some hard data that you know this works. I would say that. Optimism comes from people like Mark Cuban, coming into the field and going, ‘Oh, I think I can take and do this, and I’m going to disrupt this. And, at least on just the pharmacy side, I mean, I think it was a couple years ago, what Amazon and Chase. I think it was Chase, right or JPMorgan maybe they came out and they were— they were going to do a new initiative, and then that didn’t happen. I was like, ‘Man, those two companies can’t do it right. Like, ‘Oh, but Mark Cuban’s going out there and going, ‘Hey, I’m basically just taking 15%.’ It’s a great profit. ‘Hey, if I can get 15% on our business all the time, we’ll take that.

 

[ 00:33:47 ] But nothing, all these other companies are taking 80, 100, 200% profits on drugs.’ And sometimes thousands.

 

[ 00:33:57 ] I don’t know your opinion of it, but, I mean, we use GoodRx, right? I mean, you can go from a $100 drug to $20. Right. Now, I don’t know what data I’m giving up. I’m sure I’m giving up something, right? Somebody’s giving my data for free. I don’t know what. But just the simple fact that I can have a QR code and show it to a pharmacist and go from a hundred dollars to twenty bucks, yeah, bless you. Something something’s off, yeah, right.

 

[ 00:34:21 ] That money’s going somewhere. So even on non-pharmacy, we had an employee. Um, he was at a hospital locally and they were going through some issues, some health issues, and there was a charge that he was like, ‘Okay, here it comes 68 or $69,000.’

 

[ 00:34:40 ] And our plan reduced that though through negotiation and saying, ‘Hey, that’s not fair and right and reasonable, according like according to the law, it has to be fair and reasonable. These charges are not knock that down to twelve thousand dollars. Magic and they didn’t find it. They’re like, ‘Yep, okay, we’ll take that. Wait a minute So why were you trying to charge me $69,000? What happened there?

 

[ 00:35:02 ] Because that’s the way the system’s set up.

 

[ 00:35:03 ] So you were just trying to put feelers out there.

 

[ 00:35:05 ] Oh, $69,000. Our coding department coded it.

 

[ 00:35:08 ] Oh, yeah. Okay, we’ll take $12,000. This kind of gets back to the fiduciary thing. Somebody’s not paying attention, right? Either on purpose. Right. Somebody’s not either doing it intentionally or unintentionally or both, right?

 

[ 00:35:22 ] You sound confident or you’re there’s two great pieces right now that are really highlighting this problem. One is the it’s not personal. It’s just health care. Sure. The other one is the South Park episode. Oh, yeah.

 

[ 00:35:34 ] I don’t know if you saw it recently. A couple months ago. It really is pretty astounding at their ability to forecast the future.

 

[ 00:35:41 ] Well, they’re basically just satirizing the whole thing. And it was about an hour long episode, I think, about Ozempic and the healthcare companies.

 

[ 00:35:50 ] Just the health insurance, and everything in America. It was if you haven’t seen it, check it out, because it’s we’ll find it frustratingly funny, but you’re also like, ‘Oh, man, that is true.’ Is it on YouTube? No, that’s the problem. I think it’s on Paramount. Who has that?

 

[ 00:36:09 ] Somebody’s got a subscription somewhere.

 

[ 00:36:11 ] I think Yellowstone’s over now. Their subscriptions are done on Paramount.

 

[ 00:36:18 ] I feel like it’s every two weeks in LinkedIn, the sidebar is like ‘Paramount Merge Deals.’ And that falls apart. Please buy us.

 

[ 00:36:26 ] All the guys at Yellowstone better find something pretty quick. So, so you’ve got the, I’ll call it, you know, the 50 plus person business activity, et cetera. So, I mean, that’s kind of the main focus in your ideal client, if you want to call it that, that that’s, you know, where you’re putting the effort, but for somebody that isn’t in that bucket.

 

[ 00:36:46 ] What could they do? I mean, I want them to see the film. I want them to be educated. But if I’m an employer and I notice my premium just keeps going up because, of course, my employer is going to share that cost with me, that’s going to keep going up. What do you think the average Joe on the street?

 

[ 00:37:01 ] Should we have a conversation with someone yesterday or two days ago who had 20 employees that would be interested in health plan they don’t offer health insurance now they want to get something started? You can get pretty much in—you know— a plan for that person would probably be $25, 000 for the year. Sometimes it might cost a hundred thousand; it might you know, it can be pretty pricey. You can then, if you have that budget, want to pay. I want to make sure it’s easy for everyone and I don’t care the cost— you implement that. And then you can also implement that navigational tool that we have that’s again directing employees to the highest quality healthcare based on the doctors in there area, right? Sure. Another great option that we’ve been implementing a lot from employees with two to a hundred employees on their plan is what’s called an ICRA, an individual coverage health reimbursement account.

 

[ 00:37:53 ] Sounds right. So that essentially is a group-sponsored plan that utilizes individual health plans on the marketplace. So it’s different than what they were doing before, probably like in 2019, when they were doing just exchange plans. And given a stipend, this is a little different because you still get the employer’s will still get a tax benefit by offering a group health plan. Okay. So essentially, what that looks like, and it’s really easy. And it’s nice because a lot of people want the customization. A 27-year-old male employee with no kids, single, is going to have a lot different health outlook or health needs than a 60-year-old female with a couple kids, right? Yep. Those are totally different people. Yet we offer them the same health plan on a lot of instances for people who have 50 employees or less. So that’s going to be really difficult for those people to choose. So on this, on Acra, you can basically choose from 100 different employees or 100 different health plans. And then go, ‘Hey, I need to make sure my doctor’s on there.’

 

[ 00:38:56 ] Okay, I need to make sure these specific drugs are on there because these are the ones I take. And now I want a bronze plan, or I want a PPO plan, or I want an HSA. You put all those in, it filters it down. Okay, now you’re down to like 10 choices. Now you’ve got 10 options to figure out which ones you want. Well, your employer’s giving you $500 for the month. Now you can use that towards whatever. And that becomes the individual’s choice. If you want to buy up and have a better plan, then that’s on you, and the delta’s on you. But if you want the blooper plan or something, then you just want to cop. Pay the 500 bucks and yeah. So a lot of people like it because the customization the cost is very inexpensive and really for the HR or whoever the person is—HR, the slash controller, the slash janitor, the slash whatever on those kind of smaller size businesses which we all understand. Uh, have to do. Um, that’s basically hands-on board for getting it running. And then after that, it’s basically my hands are off of this, and you go straight to Connor or you’re because you’re getting a stipend. Exactly. Yep. So it’s all about the health insurance.

 

[ 00:39:58 ] So it sounds like you have a broad swath that you can have a lot of different companies, right? Yeah.

 

[ 00:40:05 ] Evaluate, make considerations, make an educated decision.

 

[ 00:40:08 ] And I’d even say, you know, just they get to make probably decisions based on information that they don’t even know yet. I’d never heard of that.

 

[ 00:40:16 ] At the end of the day, we want to take a consultative approach. We’re not in here. I mean, that’s why on our health benefit plan designs, whatever we have, it’s a fee. It’s not a commission. We don’t do a commission because, even like 5% on a million dollar claim, it’s like, well, I have no incentive to lower your premiums because then I’m cutting my cost. We’re very transparent. This is your premiums. This is what we’re getting charged. And if it’s egregious, let us know. Let’s have that conversation. But we really have never had that because everything’s really priced. So nice.

 

[ 00:40:46 ] Love to have you on again. How do people find you?

 

[ 00:40:48 ] Yeah, so they can find me on LinkedIn, Zach Connor, Z-A-C-K-C-O-N-N-E-R. Not Zach, not Connor.

 

[ 00:40:57 ] So I got to make that differentiation, right? And also, you know, just like. email us. We can probably put that on the show notes. And that’s connorins. com, right?

 

[ 00:41:08 ] Okay, great. Thanks for coming on. Appreciate it. Thanks for having me, guys. Appreciate it.